Exploring the Negative Generation Urban Legend

[Jerry Freeman]

In fact the first whistle I received from jerry (a proto type Gen tweak) sounded positively dead.

I'm sorry to say, I have a problem with this statement.

Edison tried 50,000 materials before he found a filament that would work for light bulbs. I was appreciative of your feedback when I was trying out some things years ago at the beginning of this project, but it's extremely misleading to make statements about prototypes I provided you confidentially (and as I said, years ago), in such a way that people may assume they have some relevance to instruments being made today.

If you want to report your own observations about whistles you've tinkered with, that's fine, and if you want to report your own preferences and dislikes, that's fine as well, but what you've stated here is problematic.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[Mr.Gumby]

In fact the first whistle I received from jerry (a proto type Gen tweak) sounded positively dead.

I'm sorry to say, I have a problem with this statement.

Edison tried 50,000 materials before he found a filament that would work for light bulbs. I was appreciative of your feedback when I was trying out some things years ago at the beginning of this project, but it's extremely misleading to make statements about prototypes I provided you confidentially (and as I said, years ago), in such a way that people may assume they have some relevance to instruments being made today.

If you want to report your own observations about whistles you've tinkered with, that's fine, and if you want to report your own preferences and dislikes, that's fine as well, but what you've stated here is problematic.

Best wishes,
Jerry

You forgot to quote the last line of that paragraph Jerry:

He changed the material of the fill after that.

I thought, and think, that well took care of the whole thing and left no doubt about the fact that same material is no longer part of your work.

I don't see a problem and I certainly don't see anything misleading. The statement was pretty factual actually.

[Jerry Freeman]

I didn't "forget" to quote the last line ... . I addressed it in detail in the previous post.

I would like to be able to carry on my work with the assurance that work done in private with an expectation of confidentiality would be respected and treated as such. But apparently not.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[hoopy mike]

I've been thinking quite a lot about MG's comments about filling under the windway.

When he reported the dulling effect a long time ago, I did notice it myself, although only with Generations and not other whistles, and at that time I developed a different material to use. After some time (maybe two years) and after I had further refined the tweaking scheme, I checked again and couldn't hear any difference.

I wonder if anyone has done any CFD on the flow through a fipple, filled vs unfilled. I'm tempted to run it as an undergraduate project if I can get a student interested.

I'm suprised that the filler material makes a significant difference, but then again I'm often suprised by whistle acoustics!

[Jerry Freeman]

I thought, and think, that well took care of the whole thing and left no doubt about the fact that same material is no longer part of your work.

You are incorrect.

When I rechecked after a couple of years and discovered it no longer made a difference which material I used, I went back to the original material.

This was so much less labor intensive, I was able to significantly lower the price on all the tweaked Generations, even as the whistles were continuing to get better. The whistles that list of recording artists and All-Ireland champions are so enthusiastic about have all been tweaked using the original material that you are telling the world is no longer part of my work.

Again, I need to have some reasonable expectation of confidentiality when I entrust someone with a prototype. I'm sure you mean well, but you're creating more confusion than clarity when you try to speak authoritatively about what I'm doing with my instruments.

Best wishes,
Jerry

[Mr.Gumby]

I don't think I would have had anything more to say about your work in this discussion if you hadn't responded to my initial remark, which was factual and correct. Opening a discussion about it is what caused the confusion. So let's leave it there shall we?

[ecohawk]

I remain fascinated by the breadth of knowledge and experience on this board. Even when the discussion gets contentious, things nearly always get worked out. It's inspiring. Wish government worked this well!

After acquiring several of Jerry's whistles, one of my staff, who enjoyed my impromptu lunchtime concerts, asked me to try playing along on his new Clarke Meg. As you can imagine, cats ran for cover since he had never played whistle before. So I gave him one of my Jerry tweaked Generations. I missed that whistle and kicked myself for doing so. Then I found a brass Gen in a garage sale for $1 and decided, since I am very handy with tools, that I would try to tweak it myself. There was no flash that I could see in the windway, the labium looked straight and well placed, but the tube was rough at the head and around a couple of the holes so I cleaned that up which helped smooth out the sound. Then I tried to use generic poster putty to fill the head but it still didn't sound anything like Jerry's did. So, determined that it was the material, I got Blu Tack which felt the same and had the same result. Then I filled it with epoxy. It was slightly better but still not good. Whatever Jerry does, I can't duplicate it. IMO, it is clearly not the material used to fill the head but the entire process.

I like Gen's. Some do suck out of the box but many are fine. I own a lot of whistles in all price ranges. I have a Jerry tweaked Bb in my jacket pocket right now.

[mickey66]

In fact the first whistle I received from jerry (a proto type Gen tweak) sounded positively dead.

I'm sorry to say, I have a problem with this statement.

Edison tried 50,000 materials before he found a filament that would work for light bulbs. I was appreciative of your feedback when I was trying out some things years ago at the beginning of this project, but it's extremely misleading to make statements about prototypes I provided you confidentially (and as I said, years ago), in such a way that people may assume they have some relevance to instruments being made today.

If you want to report your own observations about whistles you've tinkered with, that's fine, and if you want to report your own preferences and dislikes, that's fine as well, but what you've stated here is problematic.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Yeah.... I would have to agree with this post as far as being fair to his work. Now, I know you won't do this cause I read your post on the GenDog whistle but I do wish you would offer this frank-n-whistle cause it's a good one....glad I got one from you! Mickey



http://www.tuxedomusic

[hoopy mike]

In fact the first whistle I received from jerry (a proto type Gen tweak) sounded positively dead.

I'm sorry to say, I have a problem with this statement.

Edison tried 50,000 materials before he found a filament that would work for light bulbs.

Yeah.... I would have to agree with this post as far as being fair to his work. Now, I know you won't do this cause I read your post on the GenDog whistle but I do wish you would offer this frank-n-whistle cause it's a good one....glad I got one from you! Mickey

Now a glow-in-the-dark whistle would be handy...

[Flavius]

Some more anecdotal evidence:
Some two years ago I bought a brass red-top C Generation. It didn't seem to sound right, and upon inspection I found on the head flash that required smoothing. This seemed to confirm the chifflore in such a way that when some months later I purchased a Bb generation I didn't even try to play it: it went right from the bag to the cup of warm water, to the knife & file. And I admit to having been caught in the "Bad Generation" meme ever since.

So after reading this thread I felt I had been unfair to Generations, and in the interest of science this morning went to the shop and got three brass red-tops (D, C, Bb). Sadly, all of them present rough ends and some flash, the worse case being the Bb, where the windway ceiling and floor actually meet in some points, and the whistle plays mostly breath noise with a hint of whistle sound.

I have no reason to doubt the many success stories here and elsewhere referred, so I'm not left with the impression that all Gens are bad. But it seems clear that there's much variability, and personally I'm disinclined to believe all bad cases are due to transport accident or poor storage.

[ducks]

and mine was definitely fine after removing and moving the head. And definitely not fine before - which makes me think that they are basically good whistles, with good heads and good bodies that are sometimes put together in a non-optimal way.

and to be honest, i really didn't expect a perfect whistle for a fiver.

[JTC111]

It seems pretty obvious to me what's going on... if everything goes perfectly, one can get a good Gen whistle; however, due to less than stellar quality control, the same process can produce varying percentages of poor whistles.

Now I suppose the folks who make GENs could address their quality control issues; however, it may be to their advantage to leave things as they are as no other $8 whistle gets talked about as much. And by having so many bad GENs to compare them to, the good GENs become as sought after as rock stars. When you buy a GEN it's like buying a lottery ticket: you're not going to win every time, but you may get a whistle somewhat more valuable than the $8 you plunked down on it. Or maybe it's like eating in a diner that has 3,000 things on the menu and 10 of them taste really good but you have no idea which 10. Or maybe it's like marrying a woman without getting a really good look at her mother. Or maybe it's like buying a used car from that guy with the gold tooth. Or maybe....

I'll stop there. I'm working on improving my brevity.

[mickey66]

FWIW yesterday after reading this thread again, I ordered two Gens from Hobgoblin music.....maybe, these will arrive with no dents and I'm hoping, I get at least one good whistle. Soooo, not only did Hobgoblin music get a second chance so does the Generation stock whistle.



http://www.tuxedomusic.com

[JTC111]

FWIW yesterday after reading this thread again, I ordered two Gens from Hobgoblin music.....maybe, these will arrive with no dents and I'm hoping, I get at least one good whistle. Soooo, not only did Hobgoblin music get a second chance so does the Generation stock whistle.

Or maybe it's like dating a virgin...

[mickey66]

FWIW yesterday after reading this thread again, I ordered two Gens from Hobgoblin music.....maybe, these will arrive with no dents and I'm hoping, I get at least one good whistle. Soooo, not only did Hobgoblin music get a second chance so does the Generation stock whistle.

Or maybe it's like dating a virgin...

www.tuxedomusic.com