Bottom Dropped Out

[Rob Sharer]

Hey man, I argue all the time about crap I don't even care about. I'm Irish! And Scots, hardly better.

You'll just have to take my word that I genuinely believe Patrick doesn't need me to defend him. I'm on my own.


Rob

[Ade]

This is all very well. But I still havent sold my McGee Pratten!

A

[Rob Sharer]

Yeah, look what you started!




Rob

[Cathy Wilde]

But you got a nice free trip to the Twilight Zone for your troubles.

If you think seven Olwells in a year is remarkable, you should see the pipes that are coming up for sale lately.

[Casey Burns]

One thing for certain - the flute market hasn't gone away entirely this year. Just the contrary. Its still robust. I just totaled my gross receipts for the year a few days ago cluding the few flutes that I expect to be paid for before the end of the year) and am surprised to find that my income is actually up 6.5% this year compared with 2010. Not quite keeping up with real inflation (food, fuel, healthcare, etc.), but still very promising. My prices for my flutes were the same this year as last year.

As to where these all go..... look at guitars and violins and pianos. Thousands of people have them and enjoy them, even if they don't necessarily play them very good or at all (for instance I just gave a violin away, after having it for a decade or more). Why not Irish Flutes?

Casey

[ImNotIrish]

Thanks. I find myself increasingly intrigued by Rudalls these days, and I'm getting better at playing them.
I can make myself heard in conditions where before only a Pratten would do.
Also, well, the hands are going to turn 70 in a few months. But it is very hard to part with
a keyed Olwell....

I just want to add, here is a video of a barely fair flooter playing a not very good setting of The Orphan
on an Olwell Pratten he just received. The thing is alive!

http://www.youtube.com/user/paganserena ... p4MUAWUQ9U

jim,
You disabled your comments on the vid page, so I shall comment here. You still sound like yourself, Olwell notwithstanding.
Arbo

[johnkerr]

Is there a point to this?

Of course there is, despite your not reading and Rob's decision to get snarky (why not address my response?). If you had read any of my many posts in this thread, you would know that I am talking about seven high-end flutes made by the same maker, regardless of whom. Olwell was the subject, so Olwell was the one I spoke to. Read Jim Stone's latest answer to me and my reply to him and you will see the point in this. So useful to have someone who does not see the point weigh in. Do you also buy food no one is going to eat?

And here when I saw the title of this thread I thought it was about some poor chap who'd suddenly lost his blow on the bottom D.

Look, there are lots of reasons why people sell flutes that they wish they could keep. Jim Stone's list laid it out pretty well. But even with that, is it really so odd to see so many Olwells changing hands in such a short time? I'd say no. Coincidence is most likely at play here. As Rob pointed out, there are over a thousand Olwell flutes out there, not one of them a clunker. None of those flutes will sell for cheap, unless they're in terrible shape. And when times are tough, and money is needed, what gets sold? The thing that will bring back the most money, Those are also the sales that tend to get told about to others, not the sales of the cheap Pakistani flute that brings back a few bucks. "Gee, I had to sell the Vega for money to buy food this week" just doesn't capture people's interest like "Had to sell the Cadillac to pay the mortgage" does. But both of those things happen, all the time.

So yeah, sure, maybe one or two of those Olwell sales was by a profiteer. But I'd be willing to bet that the large majority of them weren't, but instead were for some other reason that the seller probably wished wasn't happening.

[Nanohedron]

Even Nano agreed that the seven-in-one-year thing was, in his words, "remarkable." He spoiled it by addressing insinuations I did not intend. He, like you, found it more expeditious to accuse and be nasty rather than seek clarity.

Expeditious. Well, I am asking questions now: What else am I or any other reader supposed to read when we see the following?

If Olwell flutes are so wonderful, why would seven of them change hands within a year? That seems incredible to me. I wouldn't think there were seven people in the entire world who in combination 1. played ITM, 2. gave a hoot about Olwell flutes, 3. thought they were worth $5k, 4. had $5k to spend, and 5. just happened to be in the market for one all within the same relative timeframe.

You call me nasty, yet what I read above in red is you being snide, and that is what got the whole ball rolling. That choice of words of yours is the whole issue for those of us who have been challenging you here, and to all appearances you've been sidestepping it. I speak, read, comprehend, and write in English quite well enough, I daresay, especially considering I was born to it - so when I see it, snide commentary is snide commentary. Period. So as to comprehension, what sort of clarity beyond our colloquial norms should I seek out of that? Are you entitled to say whatever you like and if we challenge you it's unfair? What is it? Here's a chance for you to answer my quest for clarity.

[uillmann]

for some other reason that the seller probably wished wasn't happening.

You got that right. No one actually wants to part with their Olwell.

[Steve Bliven]

Judging from eBay sales, more that 13 McCarty flutes changed hands in the past year. (Or maybe the same one changed hands 13 times). Please don't discuss.

Steve

[crookedtune]

I'm not sure how long this thread will go on, but it's been fascinating!

I've played a few Olwells, and was very impressed. I have owned other flutes including Sweet, Burns, Seery, Copley, and McGee. I've loved them all, and continue to be fascinated by the whole subject.

Alas, at my level, I'm not so sure any decent flute serves much better than the other. Similarly, my penmanship with a Bic is pretty much like that with a Mont Blanc. And I get around fine in my Toyota Camry.

I don't aspire to an Olwell as much as I aspire to play like some of the Olwell players out there.

[Cubitt]

Delete

[Cubitt]

If Olwell flutes are so wonderful, why would seven of them change hands within a year? That seems incredible to me. I wouldn't think there were seven people in the entire world who in combination 1. played ITM, 2. gave a hoot about Olwell flutes, 3. thought they were worth $5k, 4. had $5k to spend, and 5. just happened to be in the market for one all within the same relative timeframe.

You call me nasty, yet what I read above in red is you being snide, and that is what got the whole ball rolling. That choice of words of yours is the whole issue for those of us who have been challenging you here, and to all appearances you've been sidestepping it. I speak, read, comprehend, and write in English quite well enough, I daresay, especially considering I was born to it - so when I see it, snide commentary is snide commentary. Period. So as to comprehension, what sort of clarity beyond our colloquial norms should I seek out of that? Are you entitled to say whatever you like and if we challenge you it's unfair? What is it? Here's a chance for you to answer my quest for clarity.

Why, thank you, Nano. I am with you 100% on your use of the term "colloquial norms." I could have said, "Given that Olwell flutes are so highly thought of," instead of the line you highlighted in red; or I could have said, "prefer Olwell flutes," instead of the second highlighted example. But being in my characteristically lighthearted mood, I opted for the more colloquial expressions, assuming that Olwell's standing as a flutemaker was a given and such irreverence would not be mistaken for animosity (especially given that I was offering no critique of any kind). I realize that the written word does not have vocal inflection going for it, but I find your sensitivity surprising if not shockiing. Especially given the context of the other enumerations, if it was not obvious that my wonderment was about the sales and not the flutes or Olwell, I just don't know what to say except, when in doubt, ask. And if you think your opinion is beyond doubt I'll just have to live with your distain.

[jim stone]

If Olwell flutes are so wonderful, why would seven of them change hands within a year? That seems incredible to me. I wouldn't think there were seven people in the entire world who in combination 1. played ITM, 2. gave a hoot about Olwell flutes, 3. thought they were worth $5k, 4. had $5k to spend, and 5. just happened to be in the market for one all within the same relative timeframe.

You call me nasty, yet what I read above in red is you being snide, and that is what got the whole ball rolling. That choice of words of yours is the whole issue for those of us who have been challenging you here, and to all appearances you've been sidestepping it. I speak, read, comprehend, and write in English quite well enough, I daresay, especially considering I was born to it - so when I see it, snide commentary is snide commentary. Period. So as to comprehension, what sort of clarity beyond our colloquial norms should I seek out of that? Are you entitled to say whatever you like and if we challenge you it's unfair? What is it? Here's a chance for you to answer my quest for clarity.

Why, thank you, Nano. I am with you 100% on your use of the term "colloquial norms." I could have said, "Given that Olwell flutes are so highly thought of," instead of the line you highlighted in red; or I could have said, "prefer Olwell flutes," instead of the second highlighted example. But being in my characteristically lighthearted mood, I opted for the more colloquial expressions, assuming that Olwell's standing as a flutemaker was a given and such irreverence would not be mistaken for animosity (especially given that I was offering no critique of any kind). I realize that the written word does not have vocal inflection going for it, but I find your sensitivity surprising if not shockiing. Especially given the context of the other enumerations, if it was not obvious that my wonderment was about the sales and not the flutes or Olwell, I just don't know what to say except, when in doubt, ask. And if you think your opinion is beyond doubt I'll just have to live with your distain.

Just to be clear. I don't read you as snide; I do read you as giving an argument.

'If O's are so wonderful (not-snide),
you wouldn't expect this to happen (it would be incredible). But it does happen. So maybe O's aren't so wonderful.'

That's fair enough. You are arguing that it at least looks like there is a sensible reason to think O's are over-rated.
That's what people are responding to.

[apossibleworld]

Hey man, I argue all the time about crap I don't even care about.
Rob

Great, glad you've explained.

Look folks, there are plenty of people out there with the interest or money or desire to buy and sell these flutes without giving it too much second thought. It's not really a big deal. I think because the non-boehm flute market is fairly insular, you're not really considering the nature of people and collecting in general. It's a huge huge huge industry, and an American pastime at that... for better or for worse. Sure it's ok to ask why, but everybody ought to refrain from the prescriptions, from saying that any kind of practice is right or wrong.