OT: What's Your Zodiac (Sun) Sign? Theory to be tested

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:53 am

On 2003-02-26 09:47, Gary wrote:
July 14. I think Martin is actually conducting a survey rather than checking signs.

Gary

Well, since Graham Greene and John Le Carré we all knew that one out of 2 Englishmen abroad (or just posting so) is a "honorable correspondent" of MI-5...

[ This Message was edited by: Zubivka on 2003-02-26 09:54 ]

nickt · Post by **nickt** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:59 am

On 2003-02-26 05:59, ScottStewart wrote:
I think it's funny that people will read their daily horoscope and believe that each of twelve segments of the world's population will have a similar day based on when they were born.

Dead right Scott. When you do you go into astrology in depth (and the scientific evidence is for it, not against), such things as that are exasperating - no wonder the subject is poo-pooed and derided. Okay, rant over.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 9:13 am

Astrologists are as diverse as the rest of us..sometimes right, sometimes wrong. They do have one thing in common though...they would never admit they were wrong. Ah, the fantasy world, where everyone is under control, and where there's no self control, except during "triplets."

My cousins are twins, and they're opposites in just about every way.

The three tenors were all born at the right time...one this, one that, and one the other sign, and everyone in the symphony requested the solo part.

Christians and astrologers alike "believe." Science knows. How do you know you believe? Why do you believe you know? How do you know you know? Knowing when to do which is the secret of life. Believing is risky.

"He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; he who dares not is a slave" Christians are slaves. Are astrologists fools? Are astronomers bigoted? Does the world turn, or is it the sun that rises, or have I been blinded by the light?

The sun neither rises, nor the world turns. It's not important if it's true. What's important is that you believe it's true. Right? (don't you love it)

I love the water, but I'm a desert rat. I love logic and reason, but also impressions and mindless nonsense. I love to perform, but never steal the light...

Would anyone dare to guess what sign I am? If not, I can understand..

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 9:33 am

To NickT, Zoob, et al.:

I don't think it's a strictly "one system's right and one's wrong" scenario.

There are many systems of astrology, and it appears to me that each serves its purposes very well for those who are conversant with that system.

There is also a system in Vedic astrology that is based on the time of year, referenced to the equinoxes, just as Western astrology is.

It appears to me that each system offers its own slice of information and insight, its own dimension.

I've followed the transits of the seven visible planets and the lunar nodes systematically for the last 17 years. The correlations of those transits with what's going on in my life at any given moment are stunningly obvious, in my experience.

This isn't a situation where suggestion is at work, because I will often be unaware of the planetary positions and wondering about something that's going on.

Then I'll look up the positions and see, "Oh. Of course that thing I'm pushing to get done isn't working. Saturn's retrograde in my eleventh house. Well let's see. It turns direct on February 22 (which it did). After that, matters should begin to sort themselves out (which they did)." Etc.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 9:51 am

Don't take my water, Freeman!

My being half of a godless Cossack (Zaporogue, if you know the difference), them of the Thomas kind--have to put thjeir hands in evidence--doesn't mean I diss others' beliefs.

Just bring me evidence. This is why I DID tell my sign here, for the sake of the statistics. And fun.

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 10:04 am

Hi, Zoob.

I'm really not in a position to provide evidence. Although I'm willing to describe my own experiences and express my own opinions, it doesn't matter to me if I convince anyone of anything.

I do enjoy having a chance to find out what others think. This is a remarkably intelligent and thoughtful group, in my opinion.

Best wishes,
Jerry

P.S. What does "take my water" mean?

Jo C · Post by **Jo C** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 10:14 am

Aries.
I like performing, but I am nothing like an arian(?) is supposed to be. My moon sign is Capricorn, which fits me much better.

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 10:21 am

The Weekender has reviewed thread and been surprised at how few Fish are present. I am so......alone. BTW, the three Weekenders are Pisces, and two Scorpios. We need a Cancer concertinist or zoukist!! To mellow us out.

Also, the Week view about Christianity/astrology has not been stated.

I feel that the common sense proposal of Jesus is not to DWELL on mystical systems, rely too much on prognostications, which takes you out of the here and now, clouding your senses. Basically, not get sucked in the kinds of sophistry and power-grabbing that characterized the Babylonian days.

Christianity often frustrates those who like mystical ideas and implication because its a reform of the more legalistic Judaic scheme of things, asking you to sweep away that stuff for a simpler set of beliefs.

I just get the sense that Jesus didn't want you to be stuck in the tent of Madame Rozinka, hanging on her every word, which simultaneously appealed to your vanity as well as providing possibly evil folk to influence your lives.

The Warped Week view of the sit-ye-ation.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 10:32 am

A question: why is the position of
the stars at birth what determines
one's inclinations, future, etc.?
Why not the position of the stars
at one's conception--one's beginning
would, on its face, be the time
the stars would do their work, yes?

Answer(s): the people who came up
with this theory didn't know about
conception--conception was
discovered in the early 1840s
by a French scientist.
Further, the date of birth is
known, the date of conception
is, in most cases, unknowable. If we
say that the stars do their work
at the beginning of a human
being, astrologers
would be out of business.

Question: How does the position of
the stars at my birth influence
my personality, etc? How could
they go about having that sort
of effect? What's the mechanism?
We do have some idea of how
my genetic code affects my
life. How do the stars do it?

On its face astrology seems like magical
thinking, created by people who
believed in magical connections
between events so different
that the question 'how does
this produce that?' cries
out for an answer. I don't know
how one would even begin to
construct a hypothetical
explanation of how the position of the
stars at my birth would make me
more musical, say. Subtle differences
in gravitation do....what?

On the other hand I base
all important
decisions I make on what I read in
Chinese fortune cookies.
My decisions are usually
a catastrophe, but my
cholesterol is very low!

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 10:42 am

Here's to the biggest San Franciscan contribution to both divination AND world cuisine : the "chinese" fortune cookie!

burnsbyrne · Post by **burnsbyrne** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 10:56 am

On 2003-02-26 11:42, Zubivka wrote:
Here's to the biggest San Franciscan contribution to both divination AND world cuisine : the "chinese" fortune cookie!

We once bought a large bag of fortune cookies. There must have been 50 or more in the bag. My son reached in and pulled one out. His fortune was...blank. That was over 10 years and he's doing well.
Mike

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:01 am

I spent 6 months in LA
in a mostly Chinese suburb,
just returned in Dec.
So I got to eat the stuff
Chinese people really eat,
not the 'Chinese-American'
food served to gringos
in the mid-west. As to
the stuff that Chinese
people really eat: Feh!
Pigs blood and intestine
with tofu. Yum! Chinese-
American is much healthier,
also more palatable, than
the real thing. Whoever
developed it was a genius.
If Chinese people live
longer than Americans,
it isn't because of what
they eat--unless a lower
standard of living in
China makes what people
really want to eat unaffordable.

Lately I haven't had
any important decisions to
make so I've started eating
the fortunes along with the cookies.
Fiber!

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:05 am

Jim, et al.,

I'm inclined to think that the planets/stars don't influence anything, even if it might seem so from some vantage points.

To explain the correlations then, if any, one would have to take a point of view that all things are connected, that ultimately there's only one "thing" and we and all the cosmos are all somehow interrelated facets of that one thing, which is unfolding its history accross eons of time. The planets are just a big, elaborate clock, from that viewpoint, that provides points of reference in that unfoldment.

Of course, that begs the question, is everything predetermined, or do we have free will? In my opinion, the answer is yes (to both). Although the two possibilities seem utterly contradictory and mutually exclusive, many truths sort themselves out as both/and propositions rather than either/or.

Best wishes,
Jerry

P.S. I'm not very attached to my point of view that the planets don't influence anything. It works just as well, practically, to say that they do, if one buys into the general concept that there's a correlation between planetary and human affairs.

P.P.S. It's like the particle/wave paradox in physics. A quantum of light (or any other field) behaves both as a particle, which has a specific position, velocity, direction, etc. and as a wave, which is infinitely spread out and cannot be said to occupy any specific position.

It is also said that in its motion, a quantum of the field takes all possible paths simultaneously, but only "collapses" to become what we perceive as a particle when we become involved by observing it, and it appears to us to take the path that has the highest mathmetical probability. Poster on physics professor's door: "Heisenberg may have slept here."

Lorenzo, regarding science, I don't remember which great physicist said it, but there's that famous quotation, "The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it's stranger than we CAN imagine."

[ This Message was edited by: Jerry Freeman on 2003-02-26 12:37 ]

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:32 am

So Far:

Aries 4
Taurus 3
Gemini 12
Cancer 7
Leo 6
Virgo 2
Libra 11
Scorpio 2
Saggitarius 4
Capricorn 8
Aquarius 5
Pisces 7
Average : 5.92
Total responses: 71

OK, it's not a very big sample, but I think this shows that so far a whistler is no more likely to be a Leo than any other sign. Indeed Gemini and Libra seem to be running away with it.

It's good to see that as with most subjects that come under discussion on the board, we have knowledgeable people, a healthy degree of both open mindedness and scepticism, and good humour all round.

Thank you all for humouring the Englishman!

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:41 am

On 2003-02-26 05:32, nickt wrote:

Regarding the Christian thing, astrology was an integral part of Christianity but then got stamped on by Rome in the early mediaeval period - nowhere in the bible (both testaments) is there any statement condemning astrology (the oft-used verse from Deuteronomy about "observers of times" and "necromancy" is nothing to do with astrology.

As for Scriptural reference to astrology, Isaiah 47:13-14 comes to mind.

The term astrology means nothing more than study of stars. Probably most Christians I know plant their crops by the signs. But it is consistent with science that astronomical signs relate to the seasons. As it says in Genesis, "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years."

Weekenders pretty much explained it correctly, from my perspective. That Christianity simply wishes to avoid people becoming in bondage to any mystical system. "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Corinthians 6:12)

So, am I a consistently Libra personality?

On 2003-02-26 07:02, jbarter wrote:

BTW watch out for UK types who put their dates in a xx/xx/year format. We do it the other way round so 03/05/year would be 3rd of May and not 5th of March.

I don't know when the convention was established as month/date/year in the United States, but in looking at some government documents from the turn of the century era, it is observed that dates were written day/month/year.

[ This Message was edited by: Walden on 2003-02-26 12:45 ]