Bottom Dropped Out

[Cubitt]

Just to be clear. I don't read you as snide; I do read you as giving an argument.

'If O's are so wonderful (not-snide),
you wouldn't expect this to happen (it would be incredible). But it does happen. So maybe O's aren't so wonderful.'

That's fair enough. You are arguing that it at least looks like there is a sensible reason to think O's are over-rated.
That's what people are responding to.

Yes! You've hit it, my man! That is indeed what people are responding to. And the question is certainly worth askiing if that's your impression. However, I have made clear that I am talking in the abstract. Any flute by anybody that can command top dollar and long waiting periods would be expected (at least by me) to be held near and dear. I would expect one to sell a flute in order to trade up, at least for the most part, but where do you go from an Olwell? Now let's keep in mind that we are talking about a keyed flute. By the time someone arrives at a top-dollar keyed flute, I expect that person to be knowledgeable, experienced, and looking for the flute of their dreams. I do not expect the instrument to come up for resale very often.

Now, the fact that some took it as an attack on Olwell specifically is to me dismally short-sighted. This is the type of site where discussions such as this are commonplace. I was not stating a conclusion - I was looking for someone to explain to me why what I would expect did not appear to be the case. The conclusion I have reached is that I simply might not understand the flute market and I'm content to leave it at that.

[killthemessenger]

So world peace and an end to poverty are still just mirages then. Oh well.

[an seanduine]

killthemessenger wrote:

So world peace and an end to poverty are still just mirages then. Oh well.

Shirley? Denny? Shirley!

Bob

[Denny]

I've been away


visitin' one o'da younger of the grandsuckers

[Rob Sharer]

Hey man, I argue all the time about crap I don't even care about.
Rob

Great, glad you've explained.

Don't jump to conclusions...I actually care about that other crap. This crap too.




Rob

[Rob Sharer]

Even Nano agreed that the seven-in-one-year thing was, in his words, "remarkable." He spoiled it by addressing insinuations I did not intend. He, like you, found it more expeditious to accuse and be nasty rather than seek clarity.

Expeditious. Well, I am asking questions now: What else am I or any other reader supposed to read when we see the following?

If Olwell flutes are so wonderful, why would seven of them change hands within a year? That seems incredible to me. I wouldn't think there were seven people in the entire world who in combination 1. played ITM, 2. gave a hoot about Olwell flutes, 3. thought they were worth $5k, 4. had $5k to spend, and 5. just happened to be in the market for one all within the same relative timeframe.

You call me nasty, yet what I read above in red is you being snide, and that is what got the whole ball rolling. That choice of words of yours is the whole issue for those of us who have been challenging you here, and to all appearances you've been sidestepping it. I speak, read, comprehend, and write in English quite well enough, I daresay, especially considering I was born to it - so when I see it, snide commentary is snide commentary. Period. So as to comprehension, what sort of clarity beyond our colloquial norms should I seek out of that? Are you entitled to say whatever you like and if we challenge you it's unfair? What is it? Here's a chance for you to answer my quest for clarity.

Time to switch on the bilge pumps, Cubitt; Nano's holed you below the waterline. I haven't seen a good answer to this yet.


Rob

[an seanduine]

Denny! Welcome back! We're almost to the chorus!
Bob

[Doug_Tipple]

It's 2 am, and my wife, awakening from her slumber, tells me in no uncertain terms, "Dougie, it's time to go to bed."

[Denny]

it's six, I've slept in....

[Kirk B]

I just cancelled Netflix. This is way better. Oh look, we're out of popcorn.

[benhall.1]

it's six, I've slept in....

Still not allowed the last word. I'm starting to worry about you.

[Denny]

feck sake Ben... make some popcorn

[benhall.1]

feck sake Ben... make some popcorn

OK ... I'm going ...

[Gordon]

Is there a point to this?

Of course there is, despite your not reading and Rob's decision to get snarky (why not address my response?). If you had read any of my many posts in this thread, you would know that I am talking about seven high-end flutes made by the same maker, regardless of whom. Olwell was the subject, so Olwell was the one I spoke to. Read Jim Stone's latest answer to me and my reply to him and you will see the point in this. So useful to have someone who does not see the point weigh in. Do you also buy food no one is going to eat?

.

No, I read your posts - you didn't understand mine. My point was that there are many high-end flutes (along with, as Cathy pointed out, pipes, etc.) on sale in any given year - and there have been more lately than a few years ago, for obvious (to me) reasons. There was a spate of Wilkes there for awhile this year that actually stood out to me more significantly than Olwells, as these rarely go on sale. Same for several other high-end makes. Rudalls and other high-end antiques (in the $5kplus range) have been cropping up constantly, too, on Ebay and C&F.

So it seemed to me - and others, clearly - that you singled out seven Olwell sales as being particularly significant. And you've been given many reasons why it's not, really. But you argue on, which starts to sound like you think we're just not getting the message about Olwell flutes in particular. You're right; we're not. I don't have any investment in or reason to defend Olwells (not that these fine flutes need my defense), but the only significance in those particular sales is that times are hard. In case no one's noticed.

[david_h]

When I first started hanging out around here a common view was that flutes by many current makers held their value well, so people could get most or all of their money back if it turned out not to suite them. One could buy and try. Another view was that one needed a year or two to get used to a flute. If those views reflected what what people actually did then there would be more flutes in circulation than there were flute players. So if times get harder they could well come onto the market. On a falling marker that could be a strategic decision rather than immediate need for cash. Add to that some professional players who regard it as a tool and may neeed to upgrade another tool. Add some retired folk with multiple flutes who were hoping to get most of their money back sometime and have decided to do that sooner rather than later.

Unless people think that the same makers flute is best for everyone some of each makers flutes, and some sought after antiques, would change hands.

Why all the surprise ?