Just wondering

[benhall.1]

mathematical precision is not something the Irish are renowned for. Can you see the Starship Enterprise with an engineer called Paddy?

Terry

Miles O'Brien worked as a transporter operator on the Enterprise before becoming Chief of Operations (an engineering role) on Deep Space Nine.

Yeah, so neener neener.

Shouldn't that be "Neee-NERRR! Nee-nee-nee nee-nerrr!" ?

[Nanohedron]

I think it's one of those exotic Yank things.

[Peter Duggan]

Sounds like (concert) E played in A ('G fingering') and E ('D fingering') to me.

Oh gawd! That was my 500th post. In less than six months...

[benhall.1]

Hmmm ... now just what IS an "exotic Yank"?

[jemtheflute]

I've read that the principal flute player of the London Symphony Orchestra played an 8-key flute up until his retirement in the 1970s. So Boehm didn't completely take over!

Don't think so. A wooden RC&Co flute, probably an 1867 model (so Bohm tube, Carte mechanism), I think (IIRA), without going reference checking. But definitely not an 8-key.

[dunnp]

What about Molloys old b flat
siccama? And high pitch
I'm sure years ago I read that here and then could here the clicking.

[Cubitt]

if correct, then you have not made the case that flutes of keys other than D are extremely new in ITM... you have only made the case that you, personally, are not aware of those other keyed flutes' presence in ITM....

... hopefully, i've read a tad more correctly this time

be well,

jim

My understanding is that there has never been a time when anything other than the flute in D was popular for ITM. I think I have made it clear that there would be no reason for anyone to have used an Eb flute since it would require anyone else playing to either tune up a half step or sit out. Can't imagine that happening. I have no idea where you're going with this since it has naught to do with the discussion. Why are you trying to make an argument?

I am guessing that the only reason Eb flutes even existed is because clarinets and trumpets are in Bb and it probably calls for the flute to play fewer accidentals in the band repertoire if it is built in Eb. But that's just a guess - my focus is on ITM.

[Steve Bliven]

Hmmm ... now just what IS an "exotic Yank"?

All of us ??? ???

Best wishes.

Steve

[Nanohedron]

Hmmm ... now just what IS an "exotic Yank"?

*splutter*

From me, you're not gonna know.

[Denny]

just another oxymoron

[Nanohedron]

...there would be no reason for anyone to have used an Eb flute since it would require anyone else playing to either tune up a half step or sit out. Can't imagine that happening.

Oh, imagine it. It does happen indeed. And actually sometimes it IS done intentionally to keep out the riffraff. But it can also be just because it's a small session and everyone present wants to do it; I've done Eb sessions, and just on account of the higher pitch the energy is of a different order. Very enjoyable.

I've noticed that the Mulcahy Family do a fair number of sets pitched in Eb when performing. Dunno if that's their go-to pitch in such circumstances.

I've done a C session, too. Also very enjoyable for the mellower feel of it. These things are IMO very worth doing so long as there's no meanspritedness attached for its own sake.

[Terry McGee]

Actually, thinking about it, scientific rigour is not something that bearded, Australian flute-makers are renowned for.

I jest, of course. But I think you should think carefully, Terry, before applying negative stereotypes to races of people. There have been plenty of Irish engineers, mathematicians, scientists etc. I just looked up a whole list ...

Heh heh, I know, because I are one - a genetically Irish scientific/engineering type, though I've lived most of my life in Australia, so we get into the nature vs nurture zone, which is really where the answer lies. Lists of Irish engineers raised in defence are of course statistically not much help - you'd need to compare it with lists of engineers from all the other countries. I think I'm happy to go with the stereotypes on this one; there has to be a reason why most of the engineers in movies seem to be Scottish!

I'm reminded of something Breandan Breathnach said to me, lamenting the difference in attitudes to education in Ireland and Scotland. I'd mentioned that I'd just come from the School of Scottish Studies. Ah, it's all very fine for them, he sighed. Go to the furtherest islands and say you're associated with an educational institution and they make big of you. Do that in Ireland and they think you're the tax man.

Of course, when it comes down to who are the best writers, musicians and drinkers...

Terry

[Peter Duggan]

Of course, when it comes down to who are the best writers, musicians and drinkers...

You'll find world-class exponents in both countries!

[Cubitt]

My understanding is that flute didn't become popular for ITM until around the 1920s. By that time, the Boehm flute had pretty much become the standard for orchestras and bands.

Where'd you get this information from? It doesn't appear that you have any facts, just supposition and remembered history.

Can't remember where I specifically got the 1920s, but I didn't make it up. Niall Keegan places it in the early 20th Century. Grey Larsen talks about the flute becoming popular due to the success of the Boehm flute starting on Page 52 of his book. It seems logical that it would take some time for a flute created in 1847 to overtake existing flutes, and then some more time for the discarded flutes to permeate Ireland. Both sources agree that any earlier use of the flute was fairly limited. I have seen this in other sources as well, but these two happened to be handy and easy to reference.

Maybe since Terry has jumped into the thread, he can shed some light. If anyone knows, he does.

[jiminos]

if correct, then you have not made the case that flutes of keys other than D are extremely new in ITM... you have only made the case that you, personally, are not aware of those other keyed flutes' presence in ITM....

... hopefully, i've read a tad more correctly this time

be well,

jim

My understanding is that there has never been a time when anything other than the flute in D was popular for ITM. I think I have made it clear that there would be no reason for anyone to have used an Eb flute since it would require anyone else playing to either tune up a half step or sit out. Can't imagine that happening. I have no idea where you're going with this since it has naught to do with the discussion. Why are you trying to make an argument?

I am guessing that the only reason Eb flutes even existed is because clarinets and trumpets are in Bb and it probably calls for the flute to play fewer accidentals in the band repertoire if it is built in Eb. But that's just a guess - my focus is on ITM.

... not spoiling for a fight.... just pointing out that you made a statement as if it were fact. when asked to provide evidence to support your statement, you provided statements that were anecdotal, at best....

... not spoiling for a fight, but... as you're at it... several people have called you on statements you've made and each time, you've gotten your hackles up.... i.e. you've accused dunnp of not answering your initial question... go back and read the very first response to this thread.... looks like he answered it to me....

... not spoiling for a fight.... but... if ya don't like the smell of horse manure, mayhaps you should stop kicking the pile about the pasture....

... not spoiling for a fight... but.. you're about an inconsistent cuss. maybe you could go back and do as you've told me to do.... read the thread very carefully. i have. your logic leaves holes big enough to drive trucks through.... no wonder people accuse you of trolling...

be,

jim