Former Rudall & Rose Craftsmen And Their Flutes.

[Thalatta]

A year or so ago I posted a whole thread on Fentum which got lots of answers too. I have a Henry Fentum, a cracker, restored by Chris Wilkes who of his own thought it was very like a Wylde... He said it plays as well as the best R&Rs. Which echoes what Jon C said of his. So, was it Wylde who amde the flutes? Possibly, though Henry Fentum was known at the time (according to advertisements and reminiscences about him in contemporary newspapers or journals) as a flute player of some note, a flute professor, and a maker - though Roebrt Bigio told me that "maker" at the time could possibly have meant manufacturer which in turn meant that he supervised the making of flutes. Did he actually make them? Well, possibly: he didn't have internet and an iphone, so he certainly had more time than we do today!

[2T00TS]

Thalatta, An interesting slice of history for you regarding counterfeit coins ( Half Crowns ) courtesy of The Old Bailey- link below.
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.j ... #highlight
From this testimony given as evidence in court it appears that Charles Wylde ( Henry's son ? ) worked for Henry Fentum in his music shop. Seems to be acting as a salesman/assistant here, but may well have been only a fraction of his duties and capacity in this field. He may also be the son that Hammy Hamilton refers to in his book - " The Irish Flute Player's Handbook. "

[Thalatta]

Thanks for that! I had actually put that in my orignal thread on fentums, including some other historical info. It is indeed interesting to think that wylde,s son may have worked as a shoplad for fentum, and it backs up the idea that henry wylde may have made flutes for or with fentum. In any case, they were not far from one another between the strand and covent garden.

[2T00TS]

Took the time to read your original thread, and I must agree that it is both interesting and informative in equal measure. I don't suppose you are lucky enough to own a H. Wylde and a H. Fentum and be able to make comparison? From photo's only I've inspected there are noticeable shared design/stylistic features, but this is a far cry from holding and playing both flutes.

[TWO TOOTS]

Finally, I am more than pleased to point out the sale of an 8 key flute by John Ingram on ebay. I was beginning to wonder if these really existed. There's the ubiquitous crack in head joint through embouchure, which looks to my eyes at least as though it may have been enlarged at some stage. Could be the camera angle but it almost looks completely circular, and although I have seen a few of this shape - none have been as large. Have any of you seen ones of this size and shape before? The C# pewter and block appear to have been replace/repaired. The key cups are also unusual, being of the flat circular variety. The only other I've personally come across with these cups is an American 4 key by William Hall & Son. Well they say, " all comes to those who wait, " now all I need to do is rob a bank as I am sure it will end up going for a pretty penny. What an elegant looking flute - well worth to wait. See link below: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VERY-RARE-ANT ... 33aadd56d6

[jemtheflute]

The embouchure hasn't been enlarged. It is missing an inlay, probably of ivory but possibly of silver. The partial crack is not standing much open, but close that up and the ellipse of the main embouchure cut will be restored. Then make and fit a new surface bushing and file out the hole in that to match the surviving chimney cut out to the surface.

The flat, round keys have no "cups" and were originally padded with either leather, like the earlier style flat, square keys, or with cork. I have seen R&Rs with exactly this style of key both in person and illustrated in Robert Bigio's book.

Yes, there has been some sort of repair to the low C# pivot block involving screwing on silver plates. Can't see enough to say more.

[TWO TOOTS]

Yes Jem, the idea of bushing the embouchure with an inlay of some description would make sense. I dread to think someone had taken a Black & Decker to it in some kind of botched attempt to increase the head volume. I suppose circular plate would best describe the key " cups. " I used leather for the ones on the William Hall & Son to good effect. So far I prefer to work with leather pads for the plated keys, as they appear to give an improved seal compared to the cork ones. On closer inspection the chimney walls do not look to be undercut, and this can only be to the good when replacing/fitting the new inlay. I notice that the blocks on the foot have reinforcing pins in them. It would be interesting to remove the silver plate and screws to see how well the pin had performed, or had any bearing at all in protecting the block after the initial accident. Either way, the instrument would certainly be worth the effort for full restoration don't you think? Owen.

[jemtheflute]

The embouchure was quite clearly bushed, whether originally or as an old and well done repair. But the bush has gone - leaving a nice, cleanly made cut-out. There will assuredly be some degree of undercut in the chimney, but it would serve as a guide for making the new hole in the replacament bush.

Re: the block pins - we can't see in the photos why the low C# pivot block has those silver plates screwed on, or what damage they were applied to repair. I doubt the steel reinforcing pin either affected or was affected by whatever the damage was. It is too low into the wood for that. I would expect in a restoration to remove those plates and screws and probably rebuild the block with a wood graft, depending on what has actually happened.

Yes, I think the instrument is likely to be well worth restoration, but I suspect it is relatively early and I'd speculate very probably best suited to playing somewhat flatter than A=440, though it will doubtless tune up to that within the scope of the tuning slide, albeit with a stretched scale.

[dunnp]

Just want to say I've never tried thin leather or cork but what has worked really well for me on flat keyed flutes has been thinned (I just sanded it down with fine sandpaper) closed cell foam.
I've used this on both an early flat square keyed piccolo and a (flat keyed) flute as well.
It may take some time to get the thickness just right to seal but not interfere with the key height above the hole. But it works.
All the best,
Patrick

[TWO TOOTS]

Hello Patrick, Just to say that I have used Neoprene ( I imagine a form of closed cell foam ? ) commonly used as jointing gasket material for flanged joints in pipework/engineering. What I found with this material is that when under pressure from the key leaf spring, it works effectively on closed keys as it molds itself nicely to the contours of the tone hole and flattened surface surrounding it, but with the open C. keys in the foot it is not so suitable as the material soon recovers to its original shape of 3. mm. thickness - making the operation of these keys difficult and clumsy. I suppose if I can source some at 2 mm. thickness it may be more successful. Have tried sanding this material, but once the close film surface is breached it just disintegrates. At the moment I'm using a combination of Neoprene pads on the closed keys and leather on the open ones on that 8 key Monzani I mentioned to you previously.
Great flute by the way - it was listening to you playing your boxwood that sent me on the hunt for one - Thanks for that! Owen

[dunnp]

The brand I used is "Funky Foam". It's neoprene I think and available in 1 or 2 MM. thickness.
Most of the time I don't have to sand it (it's not a neat job I sort of stretch and sand at the same time) . On the flat keyed piccolo I had to make a few sets of pads until I got the thickness right. Sometimes it interferes with the tuning of the keyed note if it's too thick?
Not sure why this is?

[jemtheflute]

The rise of the key - the amount by which the surface of the pad clears the tone-hole - matters, Patrick. Setting it is part of "regulating" an instrument. If you use pads of a different thickness to the originals, you have to adjust accordingly. And bear in mind keys may have been previously bent, whether accidentally or deliberately, affecting their rise. On our simple lever keys, careful bending is part of the regulation process. (They often weren't very carefully set up originally!)

[TWO TOOTS]

Did a little on line digging so's to speak regarding the address, Angel Court, The Strand, not far from Pissing Ally believe it or not, where this little beauty was crafted. The address no longer exists, being demolished some time in the past. There is a traffic underpass situated where these buildings once stood, and they may have possibly met their demise during its construction? ( Clarification from London residents would prove useful here ). If you look for a website called In Their Shoes -James Partleton ( 1837 -1876 ) addendum, you will find some interesting reading with illustrations and maps describing the area at the time this flute was being made. By all accounts it was something of a Squalid Hell Hole during this period, which in many ways only adds to the worthy admiration and respect for these truly gifted Craftsmen of their day. It was only a stones throw from Tavistock Street.

[jemtheflute]

London remains a squalid hell-hole, in general. Maybe not mostly in quite C19th fashion, but it's a huge city. Horrible.