Patrick Sky's "Budget" vs. David Daye Penny

[Hooleh]

Greetings all,

If you're lazy, skip to the last line of the post.

This is the first time I'm posting here, so apologies if this is a re-post or something. I'm also posting this same message on the UIlleann Forum to see if I can get answers.

Anyways, the time is due I started learning this magnificent instrument and actually purchased a set of pipes of my own instead of always just dreaming about it. I have a backround with whistles, both regular and Low, and I've been familiarising myself with Uilleann Pipes a lot (as much as one can without actually owning a set of pipes), and I even managed to take a lesson in order to learn the basics. That took some work, I can tell you, since there are a total of five or so pipers in my country.

I'm a student, so this is a big financial investment for me, as I'm as tight on money as you can imagine a student to be, so I've pretty much narrowed it down to either buying a used set of pipes, or a new but more affordable one. So far I figure that, even though there are some reasonable offers in used sets, it pays off to have a new set made in order to get support in case something's wrong, doesn't it? Especially in a location such as mine where pipers are as scarce as they are.

So by browsing through the web for some time I've read about Patrick Sky, who makes the so-called Budget sets with a slightly more affordable price than most, and David Daye and his less-expensive Penny Chanters. Do you have any first-hand knowledge of the makers in question, and can you recommend their pipes? Can you tell me how they're like as compared with each other? Which one would be the way to go? I've come to understand that they're decent instruments regardless of their lower price, am I right? What about when hopefully sooner than later I'm ready for a bigger set, do people in general buy these pipes used? As in, do I have any chance of getting that set of pipes sold and some of my money back?

Moreover, what is your opinion on 'skipping' the practice set and going straight for a half set? It's more expensive, I know, but I guess it would save trouble when it's time to update the pipes to a bigger set. I'm quite confident that this won't be one of those "try it for a week and leave it in the corner to gather dust"-kind of decisions made on a whim, so the case is that I intend to really start playing. I know you can always turn off the drones, but are they much more difficult maintenance for a beginner?
Also, if you have any pipe makers you recommend that I should consider, I'm open for suggestions!

Sorry for the insane amount of rather vague "questions" and a long post. I'm really thankful for any input you fellows can give. If someone bothers to read, better yet answer, thanks a bunch!

In summation: Which is better, Patrick Sky's 'budget' or David Daye's Penny chanter?

-J-P

[daveboling]

I have not heard one of David's penny chanters. I have heard several of Pat's practice sets ( and one half set). Pat's sets are good instruments, and are a great value.

dave boling

[uillmann]

If you fully intend to fritter your life away in this manner, I'd say you should save all your money up and someday buy the best 3/4 set that you probably can not afford. You might do this with a reverse mortgage on your parents home, or by some other means...

But for now, in that first initial fit of desperate need for urgent UP gratification, I'd choose a real wood stick over a brass tubing one. And then I would search on.

[myles]

If you'll be learning without regular access to a teacher, then I think there's actually a strong argument for getting drones right at the start. With a chanter only it's quite easy to get into bad bag pressure habits without someone there to correct it. When you get around to turning the drones on, they'll expose these habits immediately, even if you follow the usual advice and plug the bass and baritone to start with. Note, however, that I'd not really recommend learning without access to some kind of tuition, or at the very least informal in-person advice.

If you run a search on the board you'll see that people have done the Sky / Daye comparison several times in the past. Both seem to have good reviews. It really comes down to what you can afford and whether 'non traditional' materials are an issue. Be aware that many pipers have a surprisingly intense loyalty to the makers of their own pipes - take everything you read online with a pinch of salt. I'd put more trust in opinions given in person (with a demonstration involving an actual, properly set-up instrument to back them up).

[reedmasters]

As the owner of a Daye concert D penny chanter, I would say; "Don' Buy One!" There is absolutely no customer service. My repeated emails to David Daye have gone unanswered. Seems the several posts on this forum indicating my displeasure at being ignored also went unheeded. Get any other kind!!!

[myles]

Get any other kind

This is terrible advice, particularly as the OP was asking about pipes, not about how likely someone was to pick up their email.

Other than previous spats on this board about chanters / pipes / entire pipemakers going missing I find the idea of 'customer service' in the UP world a bit odd. Did Kenna ever have this problem I wonder?

To the OP: I'd always phone a maker if possible, email is not a great communication method, neither is sounding off on a forum. Cultivate the relationship. Of course, there are some makers who (allegedly) expect people to learn to reed the pipes themselves. If the OP is very isolated they might want to get together with another player in their area who knows something about reedmaking.

[Hooleh]

Thanks for the answers!

What comes to communicating with the maker, I'll probably approach the maker, whoever shall it be at this point, via e-mail and inquire his preferred method of communication.

Gladly I've found some pipers in my country and probably can get some more lessons, or at least friendly tips, in the future. As far as I understood, some of them are familiar with the art of reed making, so I can hopefully get guidance with that, as well.

I'm starting to lean towards getting a half-set straight away, with the points mentioned in this thread in mind. One question about the drones, though: I know they can be turned on/off, so can I open/close each drone separately, or do they go as a whole (hope you get what I mean)? Also, is there a quick way to physically remove the drones from the set and attach back again? I mean, are they meant to be treated like that for, say, trasportational reasons or anything? I know there are probably some comprehensive threads with info about this, but thought I might just as well ask since we're on the subject.

The point about customer service is a valid one, in my opinion, since, living as remotely as I do, it would pay off to be answered should something break or otherwise go wrong. I take it as one maker is not so fond of fixing / tampering with another maker's pipes, am I right? Or even capapbe, for that matter? This issue comes critical if I choose to consider getting a used set of pipes, too.

[myles]

All your drones will kick in as soon as you operate the drone switch. However, you can temporarily plug the ends of individual drones to shut them off (this is in fact how it was done before the invention of the drone switch). It's often suggested that after you've made progress with the chanter, you plug the bass and baritone initially and get used to keeping the tenor drone steady.

Alternatively a light tap on the end of a drone while it's playing will shut it off. If the reeds are working well and the planets are correctly aligned then you may even be able to tap them again to restart them.

The stock is tightly fitted to the cup, which is firmly attached to the bag (at least you'd hope so). So there aren't many options for dismantling stuff quickly. You can take the last section of the bass drone off, which makes the instrument marginally easier to fit in stuff.

Most makers would probably have qualms about tinkering with the work of another (living) maker, but there are reedmaking specialists who might be happy to reed someone else's chanter up.

[dyersituations]

Being remote does make it tougher for a new piper. Since both new and used reeds can be DOA depending on weather and shipping issues, you might just reach out to the pipers closer to you about helping with reeds once a set arrives. As long as you find a quality set, it shouldn't matter too much if it's new or used, as long as you know the set doesn't have any issues. I've purchased both used and new sets/chanters and all have had minor reed issues. There is a pipe maker near me who made me a good reed for the first used practice set I bought, and I later started learning about tweaking reeds.

I've been told more than once that getting a 1/2 set as early as feasible is a good idea. For getting used to the air pressure, like already mentioned, and holding the set with drones.

It looks like myles answered your other questions. Drones can be removed from the bag mainstock, but most pipers just keep the drones always attached, when storing, transporting, etc.

[Tom_S]

The stock is tightly fitted to the cup, which is firmly attached to the bag (at least you'd hope so). So there aren't many options for dismantling stuff quickly. You can take the last section of the bass drone off, which makes the instrument marginally easier to fit in stuff.

David Daye's half sets are reasonably easy to dismantle and take the drones off. The half set I owned came with a cork plug which fit snugly into the drone stock area if you wanted to play them without the drones attached. Honestly though, I'm not sure why you would want to most of the time.

I started with a Daye half set, and it was very very good. Great set to learn with. I will however echo previous sentiments about his customer service. He happily took some money from me for an extra reed and then I never heard from him again after multiple contact attempts. If you can't make your own reeds and don't have access to someone who can then you're in a precarious position. Reeds are at the heart of the instrument, as they say, and a good reed can make or break your whole experience.

[Ketil]

If you go for a half set I would recommend getting in touch with Martin Banba Gallen of Strabane, North Ireland. Good prices, very good customer service. I have ordered a set of drones, so cannot comment on quality just yet, but everything seems to indicate that he makes very nice sets at affordable prices.

[Hooleh]

Thanks again for all the input. This thread has been very helpful at least because now I'm becoming confident that a 1/2 set will probably be the way to go.

If you go for a half set I would recommend getting in touch with Martin Banba Gallen of Strabane, North Ireland. Good prices, very good customer service. I have ordered a set of drones, so cannot comment on quality just yet, but everything seems to indicate that he makes very nice sets at affordable prices.

That Martin Gallen-fellow got me interested. Please let us know about the quality when you have the chance! I did a quick search and it would surely seem like his craft is very decent. Of course he's a modern pipe maker with only a few years of experience, and of what I gathered, he has no musical background with pipess or any other instrument for that matter, previous to when he began making them. But that doesn't necessarily indicate anything negative.

Does anyone of you have first-hand experience of Gallen's pipes? And what does your gut say, would you go with a maker with less experience and lower prices such as him, or is a renowned maker with years and years of experience a must in your opinion?

[Mr.Gumby]

My repeated emails to David Daye have gone unanswered.

I never heard from him again after multiple contact attempts.

His website says ' email now working', with the caveat:

Unanswered e-mail?
Has your e-mail gone unanswered for more than 2 days? My service provider has a spam filter. Perhaps your message has been deleted.

and the suggestion it is possibly better to phone the number supplied.

[hpinson]

Did you say where you where located? There may be makers near you, which is always a benefit.

Big +++ for both the Daye and the Skye pipes. They both sound great - really more of a preference or aesthetic choice. You will be in good company, many have gotten started with those in the last 10-20 years. If you are in UK, Ireland, or Western Europe, you have lots of choices too. Martin Banba Gallen for sure too.

Order at least one, or even two extra chanter reeds - and then try and get right on learning to make your own. The more self-reliant you become, the more likely you will stay with it. I seem to see a lot of people give up when their reed gets borked, and they never replace it.

Also, you can start with the practice set, chanter alone, which is simpler to troubleshoot, and then add drones later. Both makers will do this. Your bag would need to be modified or replaced. Or just go for the half set!

Keep trying with David! Call.

[ScottMaurer]

I just bought a chanter from David off of Ebay. He shipped it fast and with great communication. great chanter too