Brass body or Nickel ?

[scottie]

Does the type material brass/nickel effect the sound of a pennywhistle whether in the soprano, alto, or low whistle style? What is your opinion? I notice some people saying the brass tarnishes badly. I figure a person can correct that with brasso or some other cleaner. Any suggestions?

[Loren]

Does the type material brass/nickel effect the sound of a pennywhistle whether in the soprano, alto, or low whistle style? What is your opinion? I notice some people saying the brass tarnishes badly. I figure a person can correct that with brasso or some other cleaner. Any suggestions?

Yes, materials have an effect on sound. Some people can perceive these differences, others seem unable to. I suppose there is possibly a third category of people who think they hear differences when they don’t……. but that is tougher to test.

Yes, brass tarnishes, but so do nickel, silver, and copper. Most whistle players just leave the tarnish but some like to keep things shiny and for that nearly any commercially available polish will do, just make sure it’s recommended by the manufacturer for the type of metal you plan to use it on. Try to keep any polish off plastic and or wood parts, including the headjoint, and give the entire instrument a good wash after polishing to remove any remaining polish residue.

Polishing cloths also work in most cases, if you don’t want to deal with pastes. You can find brasswind instrument polishing cloths anywhere brasswinds are sold. Again, look for a cloth made for polishing brass, so skip something like guitar polishing cloths. Keep in mind, polishing clothes are impregnated with polishing compound, so once you’ve shined your whistle you should still wash and dry it well.

Jewelers polishing cloths work too.

Finally, if you like the shiny look, you can purchase a small container of Renaissance Wax and apply several coats on your whistle body after the polishing, washing, and drying process is complete. The Ren wax will provide a barrier to prevent your instrument from tarnishing again for some time.

[Katharine]

I think it's going to depend on your ear (or perhaps expectations). I've heard some people say there's a difference, and others say there isn't, and still others say there is but it's so subtle it doesn't matter.

Some people also say a nickel body is slipperier to hold.

[Loren]

Some people also say a nickel body is slipperier to hold.

Yeah, I agree: Nickel can definitely be a bit more squirrelly in the hand, kind of depends on atmospheric conditions and how dry your hands are.

I really dislike the smell that brass leaves on my fingers and hands, so I generally prefer nickel whistles, until I’m having one of those “slick nickel” days. I find it just a minor annoyance most times, but I can see how some others might find it more aggravating.

[Sedi]

Considering that the bodies of standard whistles like Generation, Feádog or the likes are only nickel plated but brass underneath I doubt there are much if any differences in sound - all else being equal, like when swapping out the same mouthpiece between 2 different bodies.
I wonder however if there's a difference between the Tony Dixon trad with nickel or brass since that one has a massive nickel body not just plated. Too bad that the brass version is no longer made.

[Narzog]

Body material does effect tone but not as much as one would think, because most of the tone is from assorted mouthpiece dimensions. But the same mouthpiece on different material bodies of the same dimensions, should sound a bit different. But I haven't had enough experience with that to have more solid information. So many whistles have different tones that its hard to tell what's from the material and what's just mouthpiece. The only way to really tell the difference would be to have an identical mouthpiece with both material bodies. But I havent been able to do that.

On tarnishing, I do have some experience. I got a used Reyburn brass D/C set a couple months ago. The C, which I play regularly, is noticeably darker than the D body I don't use. There may be a way to clean it after use and prevent this, but for me it happened very quickly and will probobly continue to happen.

My Nickel plated burke looks as perfect as it did when I got it. Same with my normal non plated Aluminum whistles. So if you don't want tarnishing definitely go nickel plated or aluminum.

As mentioned above, Generations are nickel plated brass. I wouldn't expect the nickel plating to effect the tone enough to care. Burkes are nickel plated aluminum. So its important to figure out if the whistle you are looking into is nickel plated brass or aluminum, because that's what should effect the tone.

Personally I'd go Aluminum or nickel plated over brass. The tarnishing does just bug me. Because whistles last forever. But in years my Reyburn is going to look pretty gross at this rate. And for lower whistles, brass weight matters.

Although reading the above posts I may be able to just polish it off and have it look like new. I have always thought brass looked nice and more unique, which is a plus for brass.

[trill]

Does the type material brass/nickel effect the sound of a pennywhistle . . .

In a nutshell, I don't think so.

Some tidbits from my own research + personal experience:

1) There was a an article in Scientific American addressing the topic of materials used in wind instruments. In a nutshell, the barrel material serves as a rigid container for the sound-pressure-waves in the air column. Yes, the body will vibrate in response, but the energy content is very low.

2) An instrument maker *may* put a great deal more time+care+effort when making a silver flute rather than a brass one. The instrument be many times more expensive. Thus a silver flute may sound "magical".

3) I spent an afternoon swapping mouthpieces+barrels of a number of my whistles. I listened closely and also used a microphone+spectrum-analyzer to observe the power spectrum. My observation: the "voice" follows the mouthpiece. The term "voice" refers to the mix of "air" sounds and harmonic/overtone structure.

4) Having made a few stabs at making low whistles, I've come to understand that *everything* matters ! I went into the project thinking "physics 101, no problem". Boy, was I wrong. I found books devoted to subjects like "bore perturbations" to improve tuning. I found that 1 single extra stroke-of-the-file can ruin a good-sounding mouthpiece.

I've come to appreciate and admire what whistle-makers can produce. They all sound different. Each has their own "voice".

Ain't life grand !

trill

[fatmac]

Nickel, brass, plastic, or aluminium, most of the tone is produced by the mouthpiece, whilst the bit with holes in (the body) has next to no effect on overall sound produced.

Yes, plastic & aluminium do tend to give a mellower tone, but they are usually thicker body walls, whilst brass & nickel tend more to thinner walls.

The patina of brass doesn't worry me, it has no noticeable effect on sound - I'm happy to let it tarnish.

[Mr.Gumby]

There was a an article in Scientific American addressing the topic of materials used in wind instruments. In a nutshell, the barrel material serves as a rigid container for the sound-pressure-waves in the air column. Yes, the body will vibrate in response, but the energy content is very low.

The old 'concrete flute' argument. It really doesn't hold up in practice.

In fact nickel(plated) whistle tubes sound a little bit brighter while the brass is a bit more dull ('mellow' if you want to be charitable). It is a nuance in difference and it should only worry you if you are very concerned the tone of your instrument. While I happily play brass instruments, when given the choice and all other things being equal, I'd opt for nickel(plated), partly due to tone but smell, feel, look etc play a part in the preference as well.

[Loren]

I agree with Peter, nickel bodies, sound brighter than brass bodies. Can’t blame it on the head: For example, I have a couple of O’Briain Improved whistles, one brass body, one nickel, so it’s easy enough to try one head on both bodies, which I have done multiple times. The nickel body produces an undeniably brighter tone. Same with Generations. Same with Copelands. I’ve done the head swapping experiment on all and the results are consistent, with the Nickel bodies being somewhat brighter than the brass tonally.

Likewise I’ve swapped heads on many flute bodies - Olwell Boxwood head on Olwell Blackwood body, same Olwell Boxwood head on Boxwood Body. Olwell Blackwood Head on Olwell Blackwood Body, Olwell Blackwood head on Olwell Boxwood Body. Grinter Cocus Head on Grinter Cocus Body, Grinter Cocus head on Grinter Boxwood Body. Grinter Boxwood Head on Grinter Boxwood body, Grinter Boxwood Head on Grinter Cocus Body. Lined headjoint vs. Unlined headjoint: Olwell Boxwood Fully lined headjoint vs. Olwell Boxwood Half-Lined headjoint on Boxwood Body……… etc., etc. Again, the results are consistent, body material affects tone.

scottie, with regards to specific polishes: If you are going to buy a paste or liquid polish, rather than use a cloth, brasso is fine if you are just planning to use it on brass whistles, but Simichrome would be a better choice IMO for a wide range of metals, as it’s safe on nearly any metal when used properly - antique dealers have been using Simichrome on fine jewelry and other valuable items for decades. If you want even greater versatility, then I’d suggest Flitz as it can be safely used on a wide range of metals as well as plastics. Again check the polish manufacturers website for specifics and usage instructions.

[Katharine]

Some people also say a nickel body is slipperier to hold.

Yeah, I agree: Nickel can definitely be a bit more squirrelly in the hand, kind of depends on atmospheric conditions and how dry your hands are.

I really dislike the smell that brass leaves on my fingers and hands, so I generally prefer nickel whistles, until I’m having one of those “slick nickel” days. I find it just a minor annoyance most times, but I can see how some others might find it more aggravating.

I don't like the brass smell, either. But I also like to think brass has a "warmer" sound (also, my previous "daily player" {until I broke it} was brass), so I usually just live with it.

I don't think either my nickel Dixon* or my Impempe (aluminum? Not sure) have more "slip" for me than my brass whistles, but I could be wrong.

*Admittedly I had hoped for brass, but that's a train I should have jumped on years ago if I wanted one-- unfortunately, at the time I didn't!

3) I spent an afternoon swapping mouthpieces+barrels of a number of my whistles. I listened closely and also used a microphone+spectrum-analyzer to observe the power spectrum. My observation: the "voice" follows the mouthpiece. The term "voice" refers to the mix of "air" sounds and harmonic/overtone structure

I've found this as well after breaking a little plastic bit in the mouthpiece of my beloved Walton and thus rendering the whistle unusable; I tried swapping on a couple other heads in hope of reviving it but no... the sound was slightly different than when they were on their original whistles, but it was indeed mostly the mouthpiece itself that made the sound I liked on that whistle. Alas. I have a new Walton to replace it, but it's not the same.

[Loren]

One other potential downside to nickel plated whistles: The plating sometimes chips off.

[Tunborough]

If nickel-plated brass sounds more like nickel than brass, that suggests surface finish makes most or all of the difference. That is certainly plausible. Unfortunately, I don't think it's feasible to make a maple flute with a blackwood veneer lining to test that out.

Another consideration: some people are allergic to nickel. Not as common as wood allergies, perhaps, but it exists.

[Mr.Gumby]

One other potential downside to nickel plated whistles: The plating sometimes chips off.

In all fairness, I have never had that happen. Not even in whistles that had their tubes badly dented or otherwise mangled.

[Loren]

One other potential downside to nickel plated whistles: The plating sometimes chips off.

In all fairness, I have never had that happen. Not even in whistles that had their tubes badly dented or otherwise mangled.

I’m sure you’ve had more nickel plated whistles over the years than I have, and I certainly wouldn’t argue your point Peter. I do have one out of around 10 or so “cheap” nickel plated whistles I’ve purchased that has developed significant peeling off of the plating. I’m the only owner of the whistle in question and it hasn’t been dropped, to my knowledge anyway, so I chalk it up to a flaw in the plating process.

Bottom line, I think you’re right Peter, it’s not a common problem, and it wouldn’t steer me away from an otherwise nice nickel plated whistle.