Kinds of wood for Uilleann Pipes

irishpiper · Post by **irishpiper** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:28 pm

Hello everyone!

I have been told by many people that all different kinds of wood are the best when making a "D" set of uilleann pipes. Some people say boxwood, some say ebony, african blackwood, fruitwoods, etc. What wood is the best to use when making the most in tune, balanced, and the greatest sounding set of " D" pipes. Also who do think has the best sounding chanter out on the market. Your thoughts and opinions......

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:42 pm

Consider this:
The reed design and setting could easily have a greater effect on a chanters sound than the bore design or wood being used.

irishpiper · Post by **irishpiper** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:50 pm

Ok, I agree with that but wood and the bore design do play a part right.. there is got to be more than just that ..I mean, if what you say is true, then you could make a pakistan set of uilleann pipes sound great with the right reeds.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:15 pm

A bad design is a bad design, regardless of the reeding. It's possible tricks can be applied (rushes, tape, mojo) to help playability. Some of these also affect the sound of a chanter.

Two 'identical' chanters made by the same pipemaker will have slight variances normally...

Boxwood and fruitwoods generally yield softer sounding chanters and cocobolo is somewhere near the middle. Blackwood would be brighter in tone.

Who makes the best chanter??
Who makes the best pickup truck? Dodge, Ford, Chevy... they each have different features. Same with pipes. What are you expecting out of it?
The best thing is to listen to a few closeup (at a Tionol or large club meeting) and decide what sounds best to your ear.

djm · Post by **djm** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:27 pm

IP, the type of wood is not a critical factor, as long as it is a very dense wood, so all the types of wood you have mentioned work well. Dense woods are required to reflect the sound produced, instead of absorbing the sound, or parts of the sound. I have an ebony set, but ebony, and especially totally black ebony, is not very easily found, nowadays. I have had an african black wood set, but it wasn't well cured/seasoned, and shrunk and cracked incredibly. There are lots of South American rosewoods like cocobolo that make beautiful sets. Sometimes you can get a hold of very dense hard maple that makes a decent set, but this is as soft a wood as you would ever want to go. European boxwood is so rare these days that you normally only see it used for smaller pieces like trim and mounts. Some fruitwoods have been used, like apple, but cherry is too soft for anything other than the stock.

More important than the type of wood is what design the pipemaker chooses, and how well he executes it. Your example above of a Pakistani set with a good reed is pretty much the same idea. The best wood in the world won't overcome a bad design, or a poorly made instrument.

Hope that helps,

djm

irishpiper · Post by **irishpiper** » Sun Nov 02, 2003 10:40 pm

Thanks, DJM..I already have decided..I like my Seth Gallagher set in Ebony(D), I also like my Eugene Lamb set in African Blackwood( D), and my Quinn chanter in rosewood( D), and my Brad Angus set in African Balckwood and cherry (D) ,and My Robbie Hughes chanter in African Blackwood..etc. They all sound good but they all sound different, and each one of the have their own little quirks. I am also in the process of getting a C or D chanter done in HAWAIIAN KOA WOOD which is almost waterproof. The wood is very hard and has the same characteristics of African Blackwood..maybe I will have a narrow bore D done.

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:56 am

"The specific gravity of Koa wood is on average .40, but with curly-grained wood can be as high as .65." http://www.kauaiframes.com/koa.html. Blackwood's specific gravity (an indicator of density - a material with an SG over 1.00 will sink in water) averages 1.20. There are plenty of other factors in assessing the workability of a wood, of course; but I would be surprised if a Koa chanter would work or sound anything like blackwood. Who is making the Koa chanter?
Harrington of Cork made a set in the old days which had some blackwood pieces - this set is described in one of the Sean Reid Society CDs. This is about the only instance of one of the old makers using African Blackwood that I've encountered; they invariably preferred ebony, up to Rowsome. Leo Rowsome's son Liam mentions his father's preference for black ebony in his biography. Willie Rowsome sometimes used other varities of ebony - there are innumerable types of Diospyros spp., including the American Persimmon tree. Bruce Childress wrote about making his first chanters from a felled Persimmon tree. I think it was Ken McLeod who said that blackwood wasn't used on Irish pipes until the 1950s - Craig Fischer inspected the Harrington set mentioned above, he'd know his stuff - this seems to be an anomaly all the way. I've also seen a Patsy Brown chanter in blackwood, made in the 1950s or earlier, but three other chanters and a full set of his I've also seen were all ebony.
Geoff Wooff has written about his preference for ebony, that it amplifies the harmonics of the pipes more than blackwood, whose oils absorb those same harmonics; these oils, however, repel moisture better, hence its use in wet woodwinds. The extra harmonics make the tone even richer. Irishpiper's Angus set is one of the only of its kind, he tried out blackwood early on but abandoned using it for ebony for the superior tone, and ebony's workability, too; he told me blackwood worked like plastic. My set of Angus Northumbrian pipes is in blackwood, too, he told me it would take the fine details better than ebony, but I doubt he'd feel that way now. He has made smallpipes in ebony since then, too.
Any of the attendant pipemakers here have any thoughts on the whole Blackwood Vrs. Ebony issue? Another interesting thing is that in the old days many woodwind makers would paint boxwood black, for instance Dan O'Dowd's set of Egan pipes.

marcpipes · Post by **marcpipes** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:03 am

I've asked before but not gotten any feedback. Has anyone tried bloodwood? It turns out more dark purple-brown than blood red when oiled and stone burnishied. It's dense, rings well, turns beautifully and leaves the shop smelling a bit like chocolate. I'm working on a set of smallpipes and really like how it behaves. Some day we'll see how it is for uillean pipes. I've got some cocobolo(sp?), but I'm scared of the allergy potential: another point in bloodwood's favor. Anyone else ever try it?
Marc

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:30 am

Another thing to consider is the size and shape of the bore. Keenan's preference for his new boxwood chanter is said to be because the large bore, the undercuts, the thin wall, etc., all give volume and allows for the crazy nuances. Yet the mellowness of the boxwood compensates for all this...bringing back softness and sweetness of tone.

djm · Post by **djm** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:07 pm

I can't help but think that the design has more to do with the difference between all these various chanters than anything else. You would have to have two identical chanters made by the same maker to be able to judge truly. Since it is usually the maker himself who is in a position to do this comparison, I would go by what the maker says.

djm

Jim McGuire · Post by **Jim McGuire** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:33 pm

The player has a lot to do with it, too. I heard reports years ago that Liam OFlynn stopped by the Pipers Club in London. He did not have his instrument as it was going great and he had a gig the next day. So, he tried on a few sets and, remarkably, in every instance the tone was improved with Liam at the helm.

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:37 am

O'Flynn also related in an interview about Seamus Ennis playing Liam's Rowsome set, and out came the "Ennis tone." I've a tape of Seamus in 1980 which starts with some yabbaho trying to play Ennis's pipes; it's quite strange sounding, like it's Seamus but something's not right...I was surprised at the tracks of Liam playing Ennis's pipes on his Fine Art album; it sounds as if new reeds were made, and it sounds nothing like Seamus's pipes now. The track on Drones and Chanters 2 sounds more like the old set again. Quite a lot going on here.

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:16 am

Oh, no! You mean I will sound just as bad on any set I pick up?

djm

nwhitmer · Post by **nwhitmer** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:35 am

Here are a couple impressions I have from over the years of making pipes.

I prefer african blackwood for its sound, stability (tendancy to warp, or shrink and expand with the seasons), looks and ease of turning.

Ebony is less stable & harder to work than blackwood. All things being equal (how often does that happen?) I have the sense that it gives a less bright sound.

Boxwood is the least stable of these 3 woods, is very cool looking & lots of fun to turn. The least bright sound of the 3.

I'm not working with cocobolo any more. Over the years I've had 2 customers who developed allergic reactions to it. Skin rash.

Regards,

Nick

anima · Post by **anima** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:52 am

hey Nick, have you ever used Mopane?

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Kinds of wood for Uilleann Pipes

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