Fifes!

[jim_mc]

I'm cross posting this to the woodenflute list, and to the flute board, so please ignore if the redundancy disturbs you.

Sorry for the slightly off-topic post, but
there's been a new development in the fife world
that I know will interest some of our number.

The Cooperman Fife and Drum Company has reached
agreements with Wilson Woods and John McDonagh to
take over production of McDonagh fifes. They
plan to begin production this spring of six and
ten hole versions, and have them available by
summer. An agreement was also reached to
manufacture an eleven hole version, but Cooperman
doesn't plan to offer it this first year.

Previously, Cooperman sold McDonagh fifes
manufactured by Wilson Woods as well as their own
two-piece concert model fife. Production of tht
fife will be discontinued. Cooperman will
continue to offer their one-piece concert model
fife, which (by the way) they developed with the
help of our flute board's own Dave Migoya.

I expect to have one of the early fifes off of
Cooperman's production line, and I'll let you all
know what I think when it arrives.

Also, I recently acquired a pink ivory fife made
by a Connecticut man named Ron Peeler. It's a
six-hole, one-piece, cylindrical bore fife in B
flat, typical of the American tradition except
for the wild color. It's a lovely, lovely fife,
impeccably tooled, with a very nice tone, and it
is absolutely the easiest blowing fife I've ever
played!

Linkage:

Cooperman
http://www.cooperman.com/

Peeler
http://www.peelerfife.com/

Images of Pink Ivory Fifes
http://www.fifedrum.org/album/image-cac ... isp512.jpg

Mine is the one in the middle.

I have no commercial connections with any of the
folks discussed above, other than continuing to
give them my money.

Best Regards,

Jim

P.S. - for the sake of those whistle players who are only familiar with the oft disparaged Cooperman whistle, their professional model fifes and their drum are first rate products.

[Walden]

P.S. - for the sake of those whistle players who are only familiar with the oft disparaged Cooperman whistle, their professional model fifes and their drum are first rate products.

Don't they also make a plastic beginner's fife that is respected by many fifers? And a tourist shop wooden fife that isn't?

[Tyghress]

Ah, the fifers are coming slowly out of their winter slumber, limbering up and getting their party hats on. . ."mustard" season can't be far behind!

Beauteous fife, Jim!

Hey, yesterday I got a soundo out of a fife! Not a pretty sound, to be sure, but a sound none-the-less. Tyghre was suitably worried that I was being unduly influenced to take up a new instrument, but I'll just be a groupie, I think.

[riasgt]

Wow! Cooperman making McDonough fifes?! I hope they have better success than Larry Trout did.

Thanks for the update, Jim!

[jim stone]

Saw some fellas playing blackwood twopiece fifes
outside a movie theater for the opening of
Cold Mountain. Geez you could hear them for
blocks. There were more holes than six.
So how does the fingering work?
Also why not try the fingering, if it
works, on lower whistles, too?

How low do fife's go? Best

[madfifer9]

Fifes are in Bb, but the music is written as if it were a D instrument. So, you can play a lot of the music for whistle on fife. I do it all the time. (I have a six hole fife.)

Supposedly, fifes and drums could be heard for three miles. I suspect it was the drums more than the fifes, but fifes ARE really loud. Louder than piccolos.

The black plastic Cooperman fifes are respectable beginner's instruments because they don't have any of the variables existing in wooden flutes. Basically, it's a plastic tube with holes. Obviously, it does not have the warmer tone that a wood instrument would have, but the response is very good and similar to that of a more expensive fife. You should be able to determine if fife is right for you by playing around on one. They cost the same as a cheap whistle, about nine bucks. You can slam a car door on it and not hurt it much.

The touristy maple Cooperman, which comes in a cardboard box (with a picture of a patriot on it, I think) is not nearly as consistent. (The plastic Cooperman comes, appropriately, in a clear plastic bag.)

Linda S.
madfifer9

[chas]

I'm just curious, and maybe some of you fifers out there might know.

Wilson Woods started making whistles a year and a half or so ago, and I got one, I think, from the first run. I believe Dale also did. This was and continues to be one of my favorite whistles, and the workmanship is second to none. But a couple of Chiffers got some from later batches, and evidently the quality had really gone downhill.

Did the same thing happen with his fifes? Might that be one reason Cooperman is taking over production?

[Bretton]

I tried a Wilson Woods whistle (blackwood and silver or nickel). I only had it for a couple of weeks trade/loan from another board member (I don't remember who at the moment).

I wasn't too impressed. It was big, heavy, and had some rough edges on the finishing. It was a very closed sounding/playing whistle...felt kind of muffled.

-Brett

[riasgt]

The McDonough fife was originally made by Roy Seaman. At the time, it was the best "concert fife" available. It came in 6, 10 and 11 holes. Roy is also a piccolo maker and in the mid 1980s decided to focus his work on piccolos and give-up making fifes.

He sold the business to Larry Trout, and although he started off well enough in duplicating what Roy had started, his quality went down hill quickly. When Skip Healy got together with Chris Abell, John Benoit and John Ciaglia to design a fife that would fill the void that the McDonough once filled -from what I understand- Roy Seaman got back into making fifes. (I think this was primarily to do some damage control on the instruments reputation).

What has transpired since then with the McDonough model fife and Wilson Woods I haven't been following closely, but from what I have heard, McDonough fifes never fully recovered from the introduction of the Healy.

I find the move to the Cooperman Company interesting. Cooperman's strength has always been their Drums. When Ed Ferrary passed away (another fife maker), Ralph Sweet and Pat Cooperman were the only two widely known fife makers that filled the void of the standard six-hole one piece fifes.

As a fifer who plays a Cooperman Sound Chamber Model, I have made this choice for appearance purposes only. The Sound Chamber one piece fife is the only traditional looking fifes which is in tune with itself in all tree octaves. (BTW- I am always looking for trad. fifes that are in tune with itself through all 3 octaves). The only issue with Cooperman fifes I have had is similar to the problem that others have had with Generation whistles: trying to find a "sweet" one. They certainly can be found, but it can take some trying different instruments before you find the "cherry."

This is where my concern with Cooperman and the McDonough model fife comes in. Cooperman has tried numerous attempts in the past to create a two piece chromatic fife. I have an 11-hole Cooperman which is styled after the McDonough, but it never comes out to play. My hope that with the purchase of the rights to produce the McDonough fife, Cooperman has also made a commitment to make sure that the production of these fifes has the quality control that originally made the McDonough what it was.

[jim_mc]

This is reading between the lines of my correspondence with several of the parties involved (including Mrs. Wilson), so take it with a grain of salt.

Ted Wilson started production of the McDonagh fife when John McDonagh and Roy Seaman wanted to update the design. They had lost faith, evidently, in Larry Trout, who took over production of the original Models J and L from Roy. Both Larry and Ted had been apprentices of Roy's.

After a number of years, Ted wasn't making the kind of money he wanted to from the fife business, so he expanded (or tried to) into whistles. Before that really got off the ground, he gave up on all of it.

My experience with the WW whistles is limited, but I will say that the quality of Ted's fifes dropped off toward the end.

Cooperman will not be taking over the Larry Trout enterprise. Those fifes, the model J and model L, will no longer be produced. Cooperman will make the new style fifes that Wilson Woods was making. They have a slightly narrower bore than the Seaman/Trout fifes (among other minor design changes) and are easier to play, if marginally quieter. I'll take a wait and see attitude. Cooperman is the biggest operation in the fife and drum world. Their fifes typically are more manufactured, as opposed to hand-crafted. That's not to say they aren't capable of making a fine, fine product - it just means that they will have to take a slightly different approach to this particular item if they're going to reach the audience that has typically bought McDonagh fifes.

Now, in answer to Jim's question, the 10-hole fife has an extra hole for the left hand thumb, which is kept covered unless you want to play a B flat/A sharp, in which case you finger an A and open that hole, and a hole for the left hand pinky, which works in tandem with LH3, except to be left open when LH3 is closed to play a G sharp/A flat. There are two holes under RH2. This works like half-holing (only much more precisely) to play F natural. Finally, there is a hole for the RH pinky, which is kept closed except then D sharp/E flat is needed. Then you play a D as you normally would, but open the RH pinky hole.

On 11 hole fifes, there is a RH thumb hole for an alternate F natural. Some folks find this easier when playing fast runs than the double RH2 holes. I found that I use the RH thumb a lot for balance, and I'm better off with a 10-hole fife. Takes a lot of practice to get a good, fast F natural, though.

The WWW link below is to the fife and drum corps I play with.

[jim_mc]

David:

Roy Seaman never took back the production from Larry Trout. Larry still has the rights to make fifes. He simply retired from it last year. Roy hasn't made commercially available fifes since his original retirement from that business. Larry and Ted were making competing McDonagh fifes simultaneously for a number of years.

Also, a fifer from Lancraft, who wishes that I not mention his name, bought out Ed Ferrary's business and equipment and continues to make what is essentially the Ferrary fife, but is sold under the brand name Model F. That's been going on since about two or three years after Mr. Ferary's death.

I disagree that the Healy pushed the McDonagh out of business. There isn't one corps that typically played McDonagh fifes that is now playing Healy fifes. Most Healy corps are former Cloos/Ferrary players. As they have since the 1960's, all the old-line New York corps still play McDonaghs. Old age put Roy Seaman and Larry Trout out of business. Thinking that a good living could be made making fifes was Ted Wilson's mistake. The Cooperman family, Skip Healy and Ralph Sweet are smart enough to have diverse products and services to sell. Plus they all spent time building their businesses up from the hobby level to a full time job. All the other remaining fife makers (Peeler, Forsell, Model F dude) still have day jobs.

[riasgt]

Jim:
Thanks for the clarification. I mis-read you original post. I had heard about Roy taking back the business about the time that the fifes were going under a redesign a few years ago. The source I thought was reputable, and although those who know him might never think to put the word reputable and his name in the same sentence <g> (something about being a Mariner), on the subject of fifes I trusted his word.

All that aside, I never meant to imply that Healy pushed the McDonough out of the market, nor out of business. However, I do know that the quality of Larry Trout's McDonough had a direct cause and effect on Skip going into business. The one Corps I do know of that went from McDonough to Healy is MCV. Was this in part due to the fact that Skip was instructing their fife line at the time? Coincidence? No.

I know that many of the New York corps still play McDonoughs, and I believe the Old Guard is still playing McDonoughs as is the Ft Ticonderoga F&D's. Playing for over 35 years myself, I feel most comfortable in the field with either my 10-hole McDonough, or my original Ferrary that I got when I was 8.

You mention the F model made by our friend from Lancraft, (one of my favorite corps!). He bought Ed's fife making equipment, but after playing a number of different F models, as good as they are, I haven't really found them to be the same as a Ferrary like others have claimed. Again, this could be just the particular F models I have tried.

As I stated though, my concern is the quality of the McDonough Model that Cooperman will produce. I, like you, will sit back and wait. I don't know what experience you've had trying to match an Roy Seaman McDonough with a Wilson McDonough, but few times I tried it it wasn't very successful. How does the New York Corps who play McDonoughs replace them or add new fifes to the line? are there secret supplies of old McDonoughs stockpiled in a bunker in upstate New York in an undisclosed locale <g>? If so, I'll be happy to barter my first boen child for a good 10 hole! <kidding>

[SkipHealy]

Hi Everybody,

It is great to see all this discussion going on about fifes, especially at the very knowledgeable level as this is!

Just to fill in a couple of places:

The first corps to play my fife was the Kentish Guards (my first corps, coincidence?) in East Greenwich R.I. (93) They were playing Mcd. fifes at the time. The second corps was the Middlesex County Volunteers. They began playing my fifes BEFORE I was their instructor. They have really committed to the development of my fife over the past 10 years. They now play my "Deluxe" model 10 hole fife with Pink Ivory head joints. (They are generally regarded as one of the best fife sections around for those new to "drum corps talk"). They also played Mcd. fifes first.

I would not want to say I "pushed the Mcd. fife out of business" either. Several groups walked away from their Mcd. fifes for mine, you would be best served getting their reasoning from them. I can tell you for a fact that it is very difficult to stay in business as a full time fife maker. I have been open since 1993 now with the first 5 years or so only making fifes. I was selling about 125 fifes a year for the first 5 years or so and then spread out into flutes etc. I am fortunate to be known as a player in both the fife and drum and traditional Irish music fields, so it has been relatively direct marketing from the beginning.

Keep on fifin'!

Skip Healy