This came out of the thread on Seery v. M&E (5th District Flute Court) thanks to Loren and Eilam.
Robert Bigio sells a fancy O ring delrin stopper with crown piece...I know several of you have them, don't try to hide it, we wine cork purists (or is that winos?) know the truth!
I recall several folks saying they thought this set-up helped the tone of their flute, while others seemed to think that it was simply a better stopper, not the crown and all, that made the difference in tone.
While not owning such a fancy rig for my flute, I have noticed that on my old German flute the tone improves if I put the crown on as opposed to leaving it off. I haven't tried this on my Seery, and everyone's in bed so I won't be able to try it tonight, but I wonder if there isn't something, some relationship to tone for a flute with a crown.
This has led me to be a bit wary when it comes to buying some of Ralph Sweet's flutes that are crownless, etc...
What do you all think?
Eric
Do crowns make a difference in the sound of a flute?
-
Jon C.
- Posts: 3526
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: I restore 19th century flutes, specializing in Rudall & Rose, and early American flutes. I occasionally make new flutes. Been at it for about 15 years.
- Location: San Diego
Hi Eric,
I have noticed that there is more resonence in the flute with the crown on.
I made a delrin/o-ring stopper for my now sold dixon, it seemed to brighten the sound some. ( But I am just a american rookie player, and the test was done on a delrin flute...) :roll:
Here is an interview by Robert Bigio, he explains his stopper idea. He tryed making it out of different materials, gold and even zirconium!
He drills a hole in his crowns, says that it improves the sound.
http://www.enewsbuilder.net/techsmith/e ... 200453.cfm
(The part on the stopper is about 3/4's down the artical.)
Jon
I have noticed that there is more resonence in the flute with the crown on.
I made a delrin/o-ring stopper for my now sold dixon, it seemed to brighten the sound some. ( But I am just a american rookie player, and the test was done on a delrin flute...) :roll:
Here is an interview by Robert Bigio, he explains his stopper idea. He tryed making it out of different materials, gold and even zirconium!
He drills a hole in his crowns, says that it improves the sound.
http://www.enewsbuilder.net/techsmith/e ... 200453.cfm
(The part on the stopper is about 3/4's down the artical.)
Jon
-
eilam
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2002 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Ojai,CA
- Contact:
I have never experienced switching the stopper and crown with an O-ring one.
But I know that I wont take a nice old flute, with a spindle thru the crown, toss it away, and put a deferent one, for a bit more volume. Just like I don't take the Dramel tool and start changing the tone holes for better intonation. The original cap is such a part of the personality of flute, I'd feel like I'm being disrespectful, even though it probably does not make sense.
But I can see doing it on the M&E that I have , and I'll try it, see what happens.
But I know that I wont take a nice old flute, with a spindle thru the crown, toss it away, and put a deferent one, for a bit more volume. Just like I don't take the Dramel tool and start changing the tone holes for better intonation. The original cap is such a part of the personality of flute, I'd feel like I'm being disrespectful, even though it probably does not make sense.
But I can see doing it on the M&E that I have , and I'll try it, see what happens.
-
Whistlin'Dixie
- Posts: 2281
- Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2002 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: It's too darn hot!
-
Dana
- Posts: 659
- Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2001 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Tulsa
IMO, the crown and stopper can make a huge difference in a flute. I've played around with crowns and stoppers for years on my Boehm flutes. Bigio was not the first person to develop alternate crowns and stoppers. James Pellerite was developing and marketing them for Boehm flutes back in the 1970s, and I had one of them at one time.
An especially heavy crown means there's more to push against when you play. This can be good or bad, depending on the flute, and your playing style. Some makers have made hollow crowns, to aid resonance and ease of response.
I bought a Bigio crown and stopper for my wood Powell flute. I ended up using his stopper with the original Powell crown. The Powell flute is a pretty resistant flute, which is fine in the low register, and kills me in the upper register. I'm an agressive player, but the Bigio crown was heavy enough that it seemed to keep the flute from vibrating as easily, and made the third octave even harder to reach. (BTW, I tried the Bigio crown on my silver flute and didn't like it).
I have a gold crown on my silver flute that added a lot of depth to the sound of the flute. Tonguing responds less freely because the crown is a little bit heavier, but I love the sound so much I put up with that.
Dana
__________________
Disclaimer: Boehm player primarily. More years of playing that I care to admit to on this forum.
An especially heavy crown means there's more to push against when you play. This can be good or bad, depending on the flute, and your playing style. Some makers have made hollow crowns, to aid resonance and ease of response.
I bought a Bigio crown and stopper for my wood Powell flute. I ended up using his stopper with the original Powell crown. The Powell flute is a pretty resistant flute, which is fine in the low register, and kills me in the upper register. I'm an agressive player, but the Bigio crown was heavy enough that it seemed to keep the flute from vibrating as easily, and made the third octave even harder to reach. (BTW, I tried the Bigio crown on my silver flute and didn't like it).
I have a gold crown on my silver flute that added a lot of depth to the sound of the flute. Tonguing responds less freely because the crown is a little bit heavier, but I love the sound so much I put up with that.
Dana
__________________
Disclaimer: Boehm player primarily. More years of playing that I care to admit to on this forum.
-
tin tin
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: To paraphrase Mark Twain, a gentleman is someone who knows how to play the spoons and doesn't. I'm doing my best to be a gentleman.
I agree that crown weight makes a difference.
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0
-
sturob
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: Houston, TX
- Contact:
Yeah yeah, I have the crown/stopper thingy combo dealiebob from Bigio.
I have to say, that I think the zirconium stopper is awesome. I have it in my Olwell headjoint (nobody tell Pat) and it's great. I had a delrin stopper first (from Bigio), but I think the zirconium one is much better. Yes, it's totally subjective. I think I sound better.
I have a tiny bit of more-or-less objective evidence. I take lessons from herself, Loretto Reid. Anyhoo, the first week I had the zirconium stopper in, she said, "Ooooooh, you must have just oiled. Sounds lovely!" Actually, I got another similar compliment when I switched back to Pat's crown (with no hole). Eh, who knows.
As someone mentioned . . . the key to the stoppers is that there's a hole in them, not that they have O-rings. I don't know so much about the stopper. I feel like there might be a difference, since I've got blackwood and cocus ones, but who knows.
I will deny all this under cross-examination.
Stuart
I have to say, that I think the zirconium stopper is awesome. I have it in my Olwell headjoint (nobody tell Pat) and it's great. I had a delrin stopper first (from Bigio), but I think the zirconium one is much better. Yes, it's totally subjective. I think I sound better.
I have a tiny bit of more-or-less objective evidence. I take lessons from herself, Loretto Reid. Anyhoo, the first week I had the zirconium stopper in, she said, "Ooooooh, you must have just oiled. Sounds lovely!" Actually, I got another similar compliment when I switched back to Pat's crown (with no hole). Eh, who knows.
As someone mentioned . . . the key to the stoppers is that there's a hole in them, not that they have O-rings. I don't know so much about the stopper. I feel like there might be a difference, since I've got blackwood and cocus ones, but who knows.
I will deny all this under cross-examination.
Stuart
Bigio stoppers and crowns
At the Portland Flute Fair earlier this month I had the opportunity to test the Bigio stoppers and crown and an ordinary cork stopper and crown on (assertedly!) identical flute head joints at J.L. Smith & Co.'s table. I found there was quite a difference, and like Stuard, I thought the titanium crown was markedly the best. The only thing I didn't like about titanium was the price ...160 Yankee dollars! My only veryh slim hope of getting one is if Mr. Bigio, who now lives in London, has made a mistake and is pricing them in the Canadian dollars of his home town, Vancouver B.C.!
Mal
Mal
-
eilam
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2002 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Ojai,CA
- Contact:
well, just made a Delrin stopper 8 mm wide with O-ring and a cap from Delrin with 4 mm hole and an O-ring as well, for my M&E. It play great, but it always plays great, I can't tell any deference in volume, seems a bit brighter. I prefer the darker tone, but I can't be sure that it has to do with the stopper. In a few days I'll switch back, maybe the deference will be more noticeable?
-
sturob
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2002 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Location: Houston, TX
- Contact:
It's zirconium that he thinks provides the best all-around performance, rather than titanium . . . but I think you've all realized that.
Bigio told me that the "fun" about zirconium is that the warf is flammable. So he's got to be reeeeeeeally careful when turning the little stoppers.
Also, for the North Americans out there (and I say this realizing full well that we'll probably get some comment from Andrew about how evil our military is, or that Bush is stupid, or blah blah blah) remember that a crown is the endcap and a stopper is the cork. I have had a couple of email discussions about this stuff and it only belatedly became apparent that the terminology wasn't completely clear. I think it must be because some people call the crown a stopper . . .
Stuart
Bigio told me that the "fun" about zirconium is that the warf is flammable. So he's got to be reeeeeeeally careful when turning the little stoppers.
Also, for the North Americans out there (and I say this realizing full well that we'll probably get some comment from Andrew about how evil our military is, or that Bush is stupid, or blah blah blah) remember that a crown is the endcap and a stopper is the cork. I have had a couple of email discussions about this stuff and it only belatedly became apparent that the terminology wasn't completely clear. I think it must be because some people call the crown a stopper . . .
Stuart
