uilleann pipes plan

[Joseph E. Smith]

Offhand, anybody have a 'ballpark' figure for the price of both a wood lathe and metal lathe best suited for UP construction?

[Tony]

Previous lathe discussions including models and prices:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 6ccde70820
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 6ccde70820

[Joseph E. Smith]

Thanks. I have been staring at those old blocks of rosewood, and....well....hmmmm.

[Douglas]

Thanks John

The Childress measurements are appreciated. Actually I should have a Childress D chanter arriving fairly soon.

[John Mulhern]

YVW, Douglas...but we should all really thank Bruce for sharing those hard won dimension's with us all. Bruce!

[Joseph E. Smith]

Thanks Bruce, I hope you were able to elude the 'trenchcoat.'

[bcpipes]

Hey all,

You're welcome for the measurements. I don't mind outing secret plans like that, because I have seen folks make briliant use of them, and I have seen folks make no sense of them. Besides, I may decide different at any given time. No measurements in the world will go "bing" and give you a great chanter the first time. The bottom line is that you must be able to hear when it's right. And adjust accordingly, using a littany of adjustment rules, when it's not. If you can make Uilleann Pipes, you deserve to.

And Doug: Your chanter *is indeed* almost ready. I will email you soon about it.

Cheers,
BC

[fancypiper]

Check this out, Make a Square Wooden Chanter for the Irish Uilleann Pipes

[DMQuinn]

Check this out, Make a Square Wooden Chanter for the Irish Uilleann Pipes

It was an interesting stroll down memory lane to take a look again at Craig Fischer’s article on making a square-sectioned chanter. If you follow the links that are given, they’ll take you to a tabulation of bore dimensions for one of my old chanters. These numbers represent measurements taken by David Daye, and published with my permission on his web site some years ago. When he first published them, I was hiding in Asia, and he did not know how to reach me. One of the very first things he did when we later established contact (c. 1996 or so) was to tell me about this project (not the square thingie -- the R&D that eventually led to his now famous Penny Chanter) and to ask if it was o.k. with me if he posted the dimensions. His courtesy in asking was much appreciated, and I had no problem at all with his using the information. He later removed the numbers from his site, but I see now that they were left as a supporting link to the Squinnter project, which makes sense to me.

Although I (or “we”) no longer make chanters according to these specifications, there are still a good number of chanters out there which were based on them, built by myself and by others. They can be made to play, and some of them are quite nice indeed, depending on the skill of the reedmaker and the player, of course. We’re always looking for a better instrument, and the current production D chanter is quite different from what these numbers represent. Brian McNamara’s new album, being discussed elsewhere on this forum at the moment, includes a good number of cuts recorded with one of our D chanters of a couple models back. Nothing is as permanent as change, onward and upward, and all that.

Reference was made recently to a site offering detailed drawings of uilleann and various other types of pipes. I visited this site perhaps a year ago, and was very much surprised to see on the list of drawings one of a B flat chanter by D. M. Quinn. In contrast to the courtesy demonstrated by David Daye, the author has never contacted me about these drawings, nor offered to let me examine them. Clearly he doesn’t think it necessary, and perhaps it is not. I have no idea what any of the drawings are like, so I cannot comment on them at all except to say that I have never made a chanter in B flat. This raises all sorts of questions in my mind, and perhaps it ought to inspire a note of skepticism in general. I also note that the makers of the other uilleann pipes of which drawings are being offered are all dead and gone, so they are not likely to comment, either. It is so rare that I find myself in this sort of company, perhaps I should just enjoy the feeling and be grateful that it I don’t have to be dead to experience it.

I recently received a copy of an email exchange between one of our forum colleagues and the author of these drawings, in which he asked if the author had my permission to publish the data. Quite apart from the question of whether or not he needs my permission (and since I never made a chanter such as the one he’s depicting, I’d say he does not need it) his response to Our Colleague’s earnest inquiry was snotty, to describe it in the kindest terms possible. The Draftsman is using my name, however, and presumably attaching some value to it. I’m stating here and now that any drawings of a D. M. Quinn B flat chanter being offered are a pig in a poke.


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[djm]

Thanks for making that clear, Mr. Quinn. I too was in contact with this fellow. He is not happy about publishing a price list, but wants you to ask him for specific sets, only.

The chanters on his list with no names on the web page are: Keyless chanter in B - B. Childress, Keyless chanter in C - E. Lambe. The prices are all in Danish Crowns, and vary from about equiv $55 CDN to $125 CDN. Payments are tricky - direct bank transfers only, and shipping is by surface only. I cannot speak to the quaility of them, as I am still dithering about buying them or not.

djm

[DMQuinn]

Thanks for making that clear, Mr. Quinn. I too was in contact with this fellow. He is not happy about publishing a price list, but wants you to ask him for specific sets, only.

The chanters on his list with no names on the web page are: Keyless chanter in B - B. Childress, Keyless chanter in C - E. Lambe. The prices are all in Danish Crowns, and vary from about equiv $55 CDN to $125 CDN. Payments are tricky - direct bank transfers only, and shipping is by surface only. I cannot speak to the quaility of them, as I am still dithering about buying them or not.

djm

What would you like to see in a set of drawings? What would make the expenditure worthwhile for you?

[djm]

This is a personal bugaboo of mine. I do not have the skills, tools or time to build a chanter, but what I want to understand is how a chanter, and ultimately the reed, varies from a straight cylinder. I want to understand the relationship of the chanter length, diameter, bore shape, hole sizes, hole depths and locations, etc. to the overall design of the chanter.

It really bothers me that I should have to make hundreds of reeds to get one that works, and make even more to make one that works well. It is an offense to my sensibilities that no-one can predict how a reed should be sized and shaped to match any particular chanter design (sounds pretty pompous of me, I know, but that's basically how I feel).

I am thinking that if I can get enough real measurements of real working chanters, I should be able to correlate the differences in design against a straight cylinder to find and quantify the variables in a reed's make-up so that, knowing what the key measurements of any chanter are, I should be able to come up with a reed design for each chanter that will be pretty close, with any differences being mainly caused by a particular piece of cane. I would, of course publish this info for general use if I can ever make any sense of all this.

djm

[fancypiper]

Uilleann pipes and reeds make sense?

Sane people leave them alone..... But, we have more fun than sane folk.

[alaskapiper]

DMQuinn wrote:
What would you like to see in a set of drawings? What would make the expenditure worthwhile for you?
--------------------------------------------------------------------


That’s a question not often asked. Here is one opinion.
Though not a description of a chanter, I think your IPC articles on Taylor Drones are a superb illustration of what a good set of pipe plans/drawings should look like.

My ideal set of plans for a chanter would include:
1. X/Y bore data every 5mm or so up the bore maybe a little closer together in the upper bore and less in the lower bore.
2. Reed seat data as measured from the top.
3. Finger hole data: Distance from bell, hole width/height. Undercutting and scalloping information if present in the original.
4. The drawing should reflect:
a. Outside diameter measurements at holes
b. Block positions shapes and sizes, ferrules.
5. On old sticks a picture of the chanter helps capture the "feel" or the "look" of it.
6. A good description of how the stick plays and if it has any particularities. For example, if this is one that has a flat F# or a flat octave "e" , I would like to know before I kill the chanter with a file, trying to adjust something that won’t get better that way.
7. 1:1 drawings of the keys.

Now on to the pie in the sky:
My ideal set of pipe plans would ship with a finished benchmark reed that is tried and true for that bore design. This reed would tell me if you got the bore right so one would be fine tuning the chanter to a known quantity. That reed would be the best $60 or so dollars spent on the project.

While this is more in the category of tooling, I wish a cheap set of T-shaped plastic bore probes could be shipped with a set of plans. There is little point in spending days making a reamer without being able verifying that it is indeed cutting the intended shape.


Henry

[mitchell macleod]

Hello to you,
I am also interested in plans for pipes and am grateful for info posted re: sen reid cd-roms. I confess that I haven't checked these out yet & thus I am perhaps writing needlessly etc. But, in regard to chanters not having perfectly even & straight conical bores, how does one make the alterations necessary in an accurate fashion? I mean, a reamer will obviously give an even bore but then what do you do for the uneven sections? Is it hit & miss or is there a precise method that you could tell me about? I would appreciate any info people have in this matter.

Also, is the Tim Britton reamer designed to give an even conical bore? I assume it is & if so, what next? I am completely unknowledgable in the matter, as is probably evident. I am seriously considering making a chanter myself though, and if enough guidance is available will certainly do so. I thought I may get an x-ray of a good chanter as a reference point...any ideas etc.? Well, thanks for your time in advance.