Holding flutes--right hand position

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:36 pm

Advice, please.

Several months ago I began trying to hold the flute without my pinky down,
so that I can work the Eb key.

So I'm pushing out with my thumb and keeping my
right ring finger down, when appropriate.

Using my chin and the shelf of my left
index, too. As standard.

But I'm not in control and I'm gripping too tight
with my left hand, which slows me.

Where does the right thumb go?
I'm trying to use it as my principal substitute
for what the right pinky did, so that
with all other fingers up I can control
the flute.

I think I may have my right thumb in the wrong place.
My right hand fingers are out pretty straight,
which I find comfortable, but I'm not using
piper's grip. Where is it vis a vis the other
right hand fingers? Also it's on the back
of the flute, yes? not underneath.

Advice welcome. really trying to get this right. Best

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:56 pm

Jim, you've pretty much described the way I hold the flute, which is more or less the Rockstro grip.

My right thumb sits behind the flute and pushes out. Also the larger the flute diameter, the more it starts moving under the flute.

Lots of folks put the right thumb right under the flute between the first and second fingers, and it works quite well for them. I started using Rocksto because at the time my hands were swollen and putting the thumb under the flute caused sharp pain in my knuckles as well as pulling my fingers out of their best position.

My hands are much better now but I'm used to that grip, and I love how it frees the left thumb up to work the B-flat touch on a keyed flute.

Every person is different...keep experimenting! My grip may not be the best grip for you. I have seem many fine flutists play and each has gripped the flute in a slightly different way.

Conal O'Grada actually appears to rest the end of the headjoint on his shoulder (!!!). I think my head would fall off, but it obviously works well for him.

--James

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:04 pm

Thanks. James, where is your thumb?
That is, in relation to the right index?
Is your thumb just under it or to
the left of it or...?
I understand that this individual,
still what do you do?
Thanks again. Much appreciated.

rama · Post by **rama** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:23 pm

as james pointed out, everyone is different so whatever works for you is grand. here's what i've been doing:
i rest my pinkie on the Eb touch. there's enough pressure sustained there to help hold the flute while at the same time not enough pressure to open the key if i don't want it opened.
my right hand thumb sits at about 5 o'clock ( the toneholes at the top of flute being 12 o'clock and the bottom of flute being 6 o'clock). it gently presses against flute, not clutching it. it is lined just a tad foward of rh1 or 4th tonehole.
on a flute with no Eb key, my pinkie sits on the flute and my thumb is a tad closer aligned to rh1 or 4th tonehole. there seems to be a bit more tension in my hand with this method. that is one reason why i favor the pinkie on the Eb key -- i feel very little tension in my hand and fingers (which lay flat).

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:29 pm

Thank you. this is helpful. More suggestions?

I like to have my rt hand fingers flat, too,
and when I do, on a keyless flute,
my rt pinky barely can touch.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:43 pm

ok, these tips are really helping

artsohio · Post by **artsohio** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:47 pm

Never really thought about it, but here's as best as I can describe the way I hold.

My right thumb is not quite under B1, not quite between B1 and B2. If you look at the angle of B1 and put a line straight through the flute at the same angle, that is where my thumb is. Surprisingly, it is at the same angle as B1.

I found this in Mary Louise Poor's "Guide to Flute Teaching", which might be useful to you.

"The flute should not be held while playing; it should be balanced. There is a triange of slight pressures which extends from the mouth to the bottom of the left forefinger to right thumb. If the student is not taught initially to balance the flute within these three points, there will always be the possibility that the flute will roll or fall when all fingers are taken off (as in C-sharp, for example). Teaching the student to HOLD the flute betwen the right thumb and the right little finger can lead to numerous problems of the right hand, including tension and restriction of movement...

When determining the best position, the student should place on the right hand ingers on the keys, leaving the thumb free and away from the flute. After the fingers are placed, the thumb can be positioned more to the SIDE (sloset to the body) of the flute just under the first finger (F)...

The right thumb placed on the side of the flute (again, closet to the player) will help to prevent the elbow from hanging down by making such a position too ucomfortable. The hanging right elbow also causes the flute to roll back towards the player, causing flatness of pitch because too much hole is covered. A brief formula: left elbow DOWN and right elbow UP...

There are many opinions regarding the "proper" position of this right thumb... It is possible that those who advocate the "support of the flute from below by the thumb" simply have never tried the placement of the thumb at the side of the flute. Of course, there are many fine flutists who play well with the thumb underneather, in particular those with very long fingers."

Anyways, that's what M.L. Poor said (about the Boehm flute). Don't know how helpful, but it certainly isn't brief

[edited for typos]

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:36 pm

Jim, the best I can tell my thumb sits about midway between first and second finger right hand, somewhere between behind and under on a wooden flute. On a Boehm, it's definitely behind, right up under the keywork.

I've got some pics of all this on my site--they are older, and my hands are in much better shape now as I have been in remission for a couple of years, but I think they still show my grip fairly accurately:

http://www.flutesite.com/posture_&_grip.htm

To me the whole goal is balance: you want the flute and the body together in a balanced state so that you aren't having to keep anything tense to hold the flute. Speed and accuracy of fingering depends on relaxed fingers and wrists. Speed and depth of breath depends on relaxation in the shoulders and torso.

Fact is, unless I'm for some reason nervous, when I play flute the only tense parts of me is my abdominal muscles, to support the air column, and they are actually much more relaxed when playing Irish flute than when playing the silver one.

--James

treeshark · Post by **treeshark** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:33 am

This is some thing that I've changed about and had trouble with, I've ended up in much the same place as others describe but I have found that I can comfortably support the flute using only the right thumb on the side to push against the pivot just below the base of the left index finger which presses the head joint into the curve below the lower lip. This frees up the left thumb and right pinky entirely for key work and the occasional backup support. It felt strange at first but is now very comfortable and stable.
Rob

artsohio · Post by **artsohio** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 5:55 am

treeshark wrote:I have found that I can comfortably support the flute using only the right thumb on the side to push against the pivot just below the base of the left index finger which presses the head joint into the curve below the lower lip. This frees up the left thumb and right pinky entirely for key work and the occasional backup support. Rob

I think that is what Poor was saying (although you phrased it much more succinctly!) -- balancing the flute with the base of the left index finger, the jaw and the right thumb rather than "holding it" with other fingers.