Drone reed stability

WannabePiper · Post by **WannabePiper** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:27 am

Hey, all. I've been using brass 'n' styrene drone reeds for a while and they've been sounding pretty good, but I recently discovered that I had the whole thing tuned a bit flat of concert pitch, and I wanted to get it up there so I started fiddling with the reeds (ie. shortening the tongue, reversing the "plunger") Now I can't get the bass drone to stabilize. At lower pressures, the bass drone is a full half-step flat, but kick up the pressure a bit and it abruptly goes in tune. Squeeze a bit harder still and it goes up another half step or so. Roughly the same deal on the bari. Suggestions, anyone?

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:24 am

Which 'style' composite reeds have you installed? And what are the thickness of the tongues?

WannabePiper · Post by **WannabePiper** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:14 pm

Joseph,
I believe they're like your pre-Boisvert ones. The ones from the plans sold by Song of the Sea or whatever. Square brass tubing, o-rings, etc. I use the gague of styrene recommended in the plans, with a tiny bit of sanding. I can't locate the plans right now

but I can tell you the thinckness later when I get out of work. Think that's the problem?

WannabePiper · Post by **WannabePiper** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:58 pm

56 views and only 1 reply. Anyone?... Anyone?..... Bueller?..... Bueller?

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:02 pm

Sharpen the bass drone reed? (I personally can't stand the tone of the brass/polystyrine reed).

I use brass hobby tubing/Spanish Arundo Donax scrap, myself, and I:

1. Insert reed body further into the reed seat
2. Shorten tongue by moving the bridle (rubber O ring in my case) toward the free end of the reed
3. Thin the free end of the reed

Of course, then you adjust then openness to the chanter so it doesn't cuf off/suck too much air, and repeat above until you find the "magic spot".

djm · Post by **djm** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:41 pm

There's almost too many variables to mention them all in a post. That's why there are whole books written about reeds. A few things to consider: try slightly larger diameter tubing, definitely try a different tongue material, try different tongue thicknesses, if you thin the tongue at one end or the other you will have to find a new sweet spot for the bridle. Play with it to find the right combination of materials, shapes, sizes to get the sound and feel you want. This is very much a hands-on thing, and very little is written in stone that you can't tinker with to suit yourself.

djm

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:06 pm

Wannabe, just replace the tongue...it is an inexpensive and quick way of dealing with it. Also, you may want to consider a thicker bit of styrene. Once set, these reeds are are very stable, but can get really out of sorts if messed around with too much.

srfmowman · Post by **srfmowman** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:23 pm

I have made several versions of brass/brass, brass/styrene, brass/cane. So far I have found the brass/styrene the easiest to work. In the same width tongue I couldn't tell any difference in sound between styrene and cane. The difference between a stable drone and a unstable one is a tiny adjustment (I say the drone is stable if it gets louder/softer with more/less pressure but doesn't rise/drop in pitch).
If the drones were running well before I would say the build is fine. I would look for a few things:
1. Look at the stock end of the reed, is the tongue twisted? I can't get them to be stable if the sides of the tongue aren't hitting the sides of the body at the same time.
2. Look at the tongue from above, has it moved so it isn't parallel to the body? Make it parallel.
3. Look at tongue from the side, hold tongue down with finger, hold up to light. Are there gaps on one side or the other? Push close, let open, does the tongue come down cleanly or are there bends that leave gaps?
4. I use a tongue shape (from the side) that comes off the reed bed just past the o-ring, rises very slightly almost to the end and has a slight upward rise at the end (if the rise is too much/not enough at the end the reed snaps shut with very little pressure change). An almost completely flat s shape. The thing I like about the stryrene is you can do small adjustments by rubbing the tongue with your fingers.
5. O-ring adjustments are by a hair or less.
6. I put the reed in the drone and mouth blow (I am sure that this is a big no-no, but no children or animals are harmed in the process). This gives me an idea of the pitch, pressure, stability of the reed (always blows about twenty cents sharper than with bag pressure). Depending on the temp in the house I might get a little drop of moisture between the tongue and the body, I just slide in a flat piece of paper and hold the tongue down, withdraw the paper.
7. Unless you put a kink in the tongue, it should be fine. Tiny adjustments make big differences. Play with it, get crazzzzy, the worse that can happen is you might have to tie on a new tongue.

I think just like a chanter reed, think symetrical. I have used brass hobby tubing with a flat bed and the end plugged with beeswax for all of my drone reeds.

Good Luck,
John
(just another newbie in the wild west)

WannabePiper · Post by **WannabePiper** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:31 am

Thanks, guys! I'm taking all your advice into consideration, and seem to be gettting some results. Part of the problem, I think, was that my tenor reed tongue was too thick, causing me to overblow the others, and then I overadjusted them. It's getting better, but obviously these things just take alot of time and experimentation. Hey, John, I've found that you can suck in on the end of the drones to good effect, rather than wet-blowing (not that it should matter too much with brass 'n' styrene) them. Looks darn funny, though. Thanks again all!

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:10 am

I have had some requests for more specifics on my drone reeds.

For my brass tubing, arundo donax composite reeds, I use the lengths from Tim Britton's "My Method" reed book and the thin wall brass tubing design from David Quinn's "The Piper's Despair".

What works for me in my Mark Hillmann concert D 1/2 set are these:

Lengths: Tenor = 1 1/2", Baritone = 2 3/4", Bass = 4"
Outside Diameters:Tenor = 3/16" Baritone = 7/32" Bass = 1/4"

File the lay so that it uses 3/4 of the total length of the tube and it slopes from 0 to 1/3 of the diameter is filed away at the tube end. Polish with a fine grit and plug the end with solder, brass, or beeswax (talculm powder after getting the last "just right". Flat and polished is the aim for the lay.

Tongue thickness:
Tenor = 0.020", Baritone = 0.025", Bass = 0.030"

I use the bark side of the scrap and aim for the center thickness, keeping the edges equal so that the tongue is as symetrical as possible and with no twists, as flat as you can get. I also polish these with the 1000 grit sandpaper, as I did the lay.

I usually use rubber O rings for bridles. I picked these up at the local hardware store.

srfmowman · Post by **srfmowman** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:29 pm

Fancypiper,

Are you able to post some pictures? I would be interested. I reproduced a replica of a natural reed as close could with the brass tubing, using similar tongue/body lengths/diameters and elevations. They work nicely, but I am always interested in trying new things.
John

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:59 am

Not at the present, I don't have any working camera/scanner.

Perhaps I can get some taken at practice this weekend and post then then.

I hope I can remember to get them taken.

WannabePiper · Post by **WannabePiper** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:03 am

Fancypiper, I, too would be interested in seeing pictures of those reeds. No hurry, though.