Bottom D warble

GELivesay · Post by **GELivesay** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:26 am

I have searched the forum to find any articles about this and have not seen anything but I am sure someone has had this problem. When I play Bottom D, it warbles or as I think someone put it - auto cran's. This is the only time my chanter has ever done anything like this. I can stop it but it takes an A gracenote or letting off the bag a bit but it is very disturbing to be playing and then hitting low D and it goes brrrrrrrrr.

My chanter is a K&Q and it has a fairly new reed, Benedict made it before Thanksgiving. The chanter is rushed full length and as far as weather it has been uncommonly warm and humidity is about 50%. I have not tried anything to correct it yet but need help.

Anyone got any useful suggestions?

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:43 am

Ruches, or any sort of stuff up the bore tends to increase the auto-cran feature of most chanters I've plaed. Pull the rush out and see if the problem is still there. Either way, opening the elevation on your reed ever so slightly will also likely cure the problem.

GELivesay · Post by **GELivesay** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:55 am

opening the elevation on your reed

Brian, sorry about being ignorant concerning this but are you saying "open the reed up" to allow more air to pass through the reed lips or "lift reed up from seat" as to make the reed play flatter?

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:17 am

More air to pass thru the lips...
Depending on the style of the reed, you can lightly press the sides around the bridal or move the bridal closer to tip of the reed. Either way it's a tiny of adjustment needed.

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:18 pm

Gary, no problem. It sounds to me like your reed might be too closed down. Open it up VERY slightly using the bridle, and see what happens. Again, any sort of rush or bit of card/plastic/wire or whatever you may have interted into the chanter should be removed first IMO to give a clean result, then insert again as needed.

The reed will be a little louder, and perhaps slightly harder to blow than it was, but should not be overly so.

Bri~

GELivesay · Post by **GELivesay** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:55 pm

Brian, thanks for the info. I am a little cautious about removing the rush (copper wire inserted by Benedict K. for tuning) but I will give the bridle a slight movement first and then if that doesn't solve the problem, I'll take out the rush.

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:06 pm

Rushed should be extremely simple to insert or remove. I'd just make a note of where it was located, and pull the thing out. It may be the root of the problem after all. Then look to your reed. You may be supprised.

goldy · Post by **goldy** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:07 pm

I'll throw in my 2 cents worth.

It would definately be wise to open the reed, although your back D may become sharper or flatter as a result, requiring you to retract/insert within the chanter. Now...not to negate what Brian has said, you can sometimes find that the opposite of what the theory reccommends works for you. With some of my reeds, a roll of card or blobs of blu-tak inserted into the bottom of the chanter can turn the warble into a crisp hard D, but is likely to make your soft D flat in pitch (just insert 1cm). There is always the 'scrape the base of the V' option, but I'd advise against that because it can't be undone and will affect other notes that are currently playing fine.

Good luck.

maze · Post by **maze** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 4:43 pm

Gary,

The fix from BK's own lips is simple (my BK stick once had an autocran, as did my lynch). weather is warm but not humid.... certainly warmer than Vermont, so the reed closed up (i know, typically they do the opposite).. simply remove the reed from the chanter and without futzing with bridle (big adjustment) hold the staple tightly at the bottom with one hand (hold tightly) and simply squeeze at the sides of your reed to open it up... if the reed does not rotate while you squeeze it will not break... BK has demonstrated this... a gorilla could squeeze it and as long as it does not rotate, it should not split... don't squeeze it that hard but it will stiffen the strength of the reed and do away with the autocran.

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:10 pm

How is opening the bridle a big adjustment?? It's not rocket science or brain surg. here...just a simple thing to help. Squeezing the sides of the cane with your fingers may work - until you let go I would think. You CAN squeeze the sides of the bridle with your fingers and open the lips ever so slightly too...depending on the bridle.

maze · Post by **maze** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:27 pm

when the reed is squeezed, the material has a memory and is altered for a while... allowing for playing. anytime metal as a material is altered, it does not eventually return to its previous shape... and could potentially never return to its previous shape thus altering the way the reed plays.

this is coming from BK and i tend to trust his judgment on the reeds. it is in his opinion to leaving the permanent alterations alone if possible, squeezing the reed here or there for temporary adjustments due to weather, temp, etc.

in ten very short and not long enough years of doing this, i wrecked many a good reed futzing with bridles et. al... esp. as a beginner. and as a researcher working currently with NASA down here in Florida, I can assure you that it ain't rocket science at all...

ITS VOODOO!!

Droner · Post by **Droner** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:40 pm

Squeezing the sides of the bridle or cane to open then lips I would think the most logical approach...moving the bridle may shift the tuning of notes that are already in tune and playing well....After all Alain Froment sticks his bridles with super glue once in tune, so that they can't shift up or down and put the reed out of tune!!!

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:54 pm

It is far easier to return the bridle to its happy place (sliding it back and forth). But, when you fuss with bending the metal of the bridle, you lose that happy place....sometimes for a good long while.

L42B · Post by **L42B** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:59 pm

I've had simmilar problems. Deconnect the chanter from the bag, take the reed cap off and have a look at it. If it is very closed. Do as everyone else has said, open it ever so slightly.

I'd also like to ask you a question? Has it been doing this before, did the wabble start happening during a big temperature change? In North Queensland we can get very extream tempurature changes (accompanied with high humidity).

What I've found with Uilleann Pipes (and GHB's) is that the reeds tend to close up when it becomes suddenly cool and dry. This often happens after a very hot spell with high humidity. If it's down to climate change I just decide to leave it alone. Normally it sorts itself out by the end of the day without any problems. However if it's still playing up then I do some adjusting. Would other pipers consider that theory legitiamte?

If your still unsure I'd contact Benadict Koaler himself and see what he thinks. As they say in the NPU video 'if in dout contact your pipe maker (reed maker)'.

Cheers L42B

leremarkable · Post by **leremarkable** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:25 pm

If I have to make a 'squeeze' or deformation type adjustment to a bridle, I normally replace it with a new one.

When you cut the bridle from brass stock, take advantage of the bur caused by the scissors action of the snips. It provides a good grip on the reed, prevents the bridle from moving around. The reed is vibrating at high frequencies after all. I always feel for folks who don't have tools and consumables and are stuck with a bridle on a reed which flops around all over the place. I Would usually replace it for them, if they wish.

David P.

Chiff and Fipple Forums

Bottom D warble

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