Moloney/Pott's Whistle 'Style'

[OnTheMoor]

All-knowing Chiffers,
Are the chirpy, bird-like whistle styles of Moloney and Potts linked
to a region of Ireland or are they purely "look at what I can do!" in
nature?

[Guest]

All-knowing Chiffers,
Are the chirpy, bird-like whistle styles of Moloney and Potts linked
to a region of Ireland or are they purely "look at what I can do!" in
nature?

Dublin?

[FJohnSharp]

this is what I was talking about when I once said that Donncha O Briain's playing is very traditional but listenable. I find the Moloney/Potts CD to be less enjoyable as a listener (but great for a whistle player).

[The Weekenders]

It's been a long time and a lot of new Chiffers have come aboard since individual playing styles by various name whistlers has been discussed.
I still don't feel qualified to opine much because I don't have the hours and record collections that some here have.

But I will state it without conclusion, when I listen to Mary Bergin on the Feadoga Stain cd, then consider the various teaching clips at Bro Steve's site and the few Micho Russell and Willy Clancy clips I have heard, there sure are a lot of differences. Then there's Joanie and her tunes.

Opine away if you feel so inclined, oracles of whistledom. If you need a jump start, compare Mary and Micho for example. What about use of ornaments, tonguing, tempos, etc? What would help chiffers in their understanding of WHAT they are hearing besides the generalized admonishments to listen to lots of trad?

[Cayden]

Well, Weeks, not sure what you are getting at entirely but you all have ears to take in what you are hearing and weren't you the one who dismissed a closer look at the styles of several players as 'too notey' :

I know that there are things I can learn from the whistle transcriptions etc. but I have pretty much decided that my way to learn whistle is to keep listening to my fiddle, flute and box records and mimic what I hear. For example, I listen to Bobby Gardiner play Fermoy Lasses and copy his rolls but more importantly, ride his "wave" so to speak in the way he delivers the tune. This seems way better time spent than slowly playing the transcriptions, ornament by ornament. Also, I am copying by ear, not by visual sheet which I think is the goal here anyway.

I am bewildered by the notey transcriptions over on the Trad forum (tho I appreciate the work and love that went into them). I get confused when people talk about cuts and taps like they're doin an autopsy or analysis. In some kind of naive idealism, I don't really want to deconstruct the tunes in that manner but I wonder if this is a path of ignorance on my part.

Have you suddenly come down to the side of deconstruction? :roll:

In that case a few looks at style are still on the <a href="http://www.rogermillington.com/tunetoc/index.html">same location as before</a> . If suitable recordings come available we may even put up a few new ones.

[OnTheMoor]

I didn't realize it was such a complicated question. I'm more than aware of the discussions that have taken place about individual styles, but Moloney's and Potts' sound very similar but, as far as I can tell, quite unique from the other styles out there.

[burrenbabe]

All-knowing Chiffers,
Are the chirpy, bird-like whistle styles of Moloney and Potts linked
to a region of Ireland or are they purely "look at what I can do!" in
nature?

Tis hard to get a straight anwser from folk I see. I think for some players, especially of an older generation, where they come from has a bit to do with how they play since they grew up listening to people around them and then copied their style somewhat. However I don't think it's the only factor and whereas tunes generally originate from a particular area, I don't think style of playing does as much, especially since most players want to "stand out" from the crowd and be noticed for how good/different they are!

I think too that you are correct in saying thats it's about letting people (and themselves probably) know just how good they are! They have done alot of listening and learning and playing over the years and get to the stage where they need to raise the playing to another level that most humble beings could never get to!:boggle:

[The Weekenders]

Well, Weeks, not sure what you are getting at entirely but you all have ears to take in what you are hearing and weren't you the one who dismissed a closer look at the styles of several players as 'too notey' :

Have you suddenly come down to the side of deconstruction? :roll:

In that case a few looks at style are still on the <a href="http://www.rogermillington.com/tunetoc/index.html">same location as before</a> . If suitable recordings come available we may even put up a few new ones.

Geez, Peter, you sure have long memory! And you enjoyed pointing it out entirely too much! As you would say, fair play. In fact, I have been studying yours and Steve's transcriptions more of late so poke away if you must. Everyone learns and progresses at their own rate. For me, getting to know the tunes by listening to the outlines of 'em and imitating the other instruments worked for me for a while while micro-studying the whistle only didn't help put the puzzle pieces together. And, considering how people progress from one instrument to another, it SEEMED at the time that if I followed the tune via the version that spoke to me the clearest, I would grasp its essence. I still think I enjoy an ensemble version of a tune a bit more than a solo version. Just seems more fun and engaging.

For example, I have now heard about six or seven different versions of Drunken Landlady, which vary greatly. At this stage for me, I am trying to figure out how individual instrumentalists change and shape a given common tune for their technique, versus some kind of regional prerogative in playing it or other factors. Liam OFlynn plays it VERY differently than Mary Bergin and the Chieftains are somewhere in between...Going to the Tionol was really interesting because I heard the way pipers were playing tunes I already knew. I really think that accent patterns can be different betweens pipes and fiddles for example because of the nature of the instrument. It all fits in the general style but you sure hear different subrhythms and melodic features drawn out when you compare them playing that same tune. Maybe you don't agree.

As for whistling specifically: there are a lot of new folks onboard and I was thinking that, as usual, they don't always have the vast music collections of many. You can't assume that whistler X even knows who Mary Bergin is. And maybe they are intimidated a bit by asking (because they might get slapped around by experts with long memories) so I will. Face it, to the beginner, listening to Irish music and trying to get into it is like jumping on a carousel at full speed.

Maybe yer pearls of observational wisdom can ease the transition. I tried to give specific questions in previous post to start from.

[Jim McGuire]

If they have a style, I'd say it's a personal style but not a geographic one. Pipers don't work at the whistle too much - both Sean and Paddy were/are pipers. Whistles are played by pipers because they are handy, can go anywhere, great for learning a tune, and nice for a break in a performance.

[Henke]

I think the style of Potts and Moloney seems very UP like. They ornament heavily and use cranns and stuff quite a lot. In flute circles we would definately say they have more of a piping style.