stuck mouthpiece on generation

monkey587 · Post by **monkey587** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:59 am

Hello. I managed to find myself a very playable "good" Generation C brass whistle the other day. The only problem is that it's significantly flat, and all attempts to loosen the glue with hot water have proven unsuccessful. Are there any other techniques I can use to free the mouthpiece from the tube?

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:09 am

Move the toneholes.

You'll need a tonehole puller tool, and you have to be careful once the toneholes are off before you reposition them on the tube, not to let them sit too long in one place, as they can get stuck and make holes in whatever they come into contact with.

Also, they're hard to tell apart when they've been separated from the tube, so you'll have to be careful to keep them in order. Otherwise you might get, for example, F with a fingering of XOOOOO and A with a fingering of XXXOOO if you happen to accidentally interchange those two toneholes.

That's easier than getting the mouthpiece off without breaking it.

Best wishes,
Jerry

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:18 am

Hahahaha!

Seriously, though, you might want to try REALLY hot water. Boil up some water in the kettle and stick the mouthpiece in there for 20 seconds or so...you want it hot enough to melt the glue but not so hot that the mouthpiece melts. And if the mouthpiece does melt, send the whistle to Jerry for a new tweaked one.

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:20 am

First you fire up the blowtorch, then....

Actually I've never succeeded in getting the C fipple off without destroying it.

monkey587 · Post by **monkey587** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:27 am

bradhurley wrote:Hahahaha!

Seriously, though, you might want to try REALLY hot water. Boil up some water in the kettle and stick the mouthpiece in there for 20 seconds or so...you want it hot enough to melt the glue but not so hot that the mouthpiece melts. And if the mouthpiece does melt, send the whistle to Jerry for a new tweaked one.

I tried some pretty darn hot water, believe me. I'll try again with hotter water... If it's already hot enough to scald me, and it's not hot enough, then I'm not sure how to determine how much hotter it is other than having a doctor compare the degrees of my burns.

Funny, though, I had no trouble removing the mouthpieces from the Bbs or D I have tweaked.

Otherwise, I can try Jerry's suggestion. Which brand of tone hole puller does Paddy Moloney use?

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:01 pm

use potholders or an oven mitt.

Boiling hot usually works. You may have to leave it in there a while...drop it in for 10 seconds and try it; if that doesn't work leave it in for 20 seconds and try it; then for 40 seconds and so on.

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:07 pm

The problem with the C, and also F, Generation mouthpieces is, the sockets are too small for the tubes.

This is true of all of them in those two keys due to the way the molds are configured. If you actually do succeed in getting the mouthpiece off, once it's cooled again, you've still got the same problem. Whenever you want to adjust the tuning, you'll have a fight on your hands moving the mouthpiece.

I intentionally crack them using two drops of acetone at the place where the tube goes in the socket. Then they come right off. I replace the mouthpiece on the tube, which opens the crack about half a millimeter. Then I wrap polymer thread around the socket and soak it with epoxy to reinforce it and establish a new, slightly larger, inside diameter that's appropriate for being able to adjust the mouthpiece normally. This is more difficult than moving the toneholes, but it produces a result that's tunable.

Best wishes,
Jerry

monkey587 · Post by **monkey587** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:14 pm

Jerry Freeman wrote:The problem with the C, and also F, Generation mouthpieces is, the sockets are too small for the tubes.

This is true of all of them in those two keys due to the way the molds are configured. If you actually do succeed in getting the mouthpiece off, once it's cooled again, you've still got the same problem. Whenever you want to adjust the tuning, you'll have a fight on your hands moving the mouthpiece.

I intentionally crack them using two drops of acetone at the place where the tube goes in the socket. Then they come right off. I replace the mouthpiece on the tube, which opens the crack about half a millimeter. Then I wrap polymer thread around the socket and soak it with epoxy to reinforce it and establish a new, slightly larger, inside diameter that's appropriate for being able to adjust the mouthpiece normally. This is more difficult than moving the toneholes, but it produces a result that's tunable.

Best wishes,
Jerry

I tweaked a D Gen and black Feadog recently. Or rather, I put my old tweaked feadog head on the black feadog body, because I got my hoover whitecap stuck on the brass feadog body (oops). In both cases, I sanded down the tube so it would fit, and then I wrapped it in teflon tape and used cork grease to make the fit nice and the sliding smooth. I figured I would do the same with the C gen if I was able to get the mouthpiece off.

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:21 pm

That'll work.

And now, I would like to solicit the thoughts and prayers of our membership for the success of this project.

Best wishes,
Jerry

monkey587 · Post by **monkey587** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:38 pm

Jerry Freeman wrote:That'll work.

And now, I would like to solicit the thoughts and prayers of our membership for the success of this project.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Since I'm an atheist, people could just paypal me some money to cover a replacement if they don't want to offend me with their prayers. $12.06 would cover the whistle + shipping.

It does all depend on getting the mouthpiece off, of course. It'd be a shame to ruin such a nice Gen, but since I got my Oak C to sound nice (with LOTS of sanding) and I've got a backordered Silkstone PVC eventually on the way, I feel like this is a worthwhile project.

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:45 pm

Jerry Freeman wrote:The problem with the C, and also F, Generation mouthpieces is, the sockets are too small for the tubes. This is true of all of them in those two keys due to the way the molds are configured. If you actually do succeed in getting the mouthpiece off, once it's cooled again, you've still got the same problem. Whenever you want to adjust the tuning, you'll have a fight on your hands moving the mouthpiece.

Wow, I didn't know this. I just now removed the mouthpiece from my beloved Generation (vintage 1975) with no problem (10 seconds in boiling water), but you're right, once it's back on it doesn't move anywhere near as easily as the D whistles I've used.

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:54 pm

Since 1975, the molds have been changed, so it is likely that new ones are quite a bit tighter yet than your vintage one.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Kansas · Post by **Kansas** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:30 pm

Jerry Freeman wrote:The problem with the C, and also F, Generation mouthpieces is, the sockets are too small for the tubes....

Then I wrap polymer thread around the socket ....etc .

Jerry

I recently recieved a Tweaked Generation C from Jerry and asked about the polymer around the fipple that was not on the D model I got from him.

Darn if this is not a great (great !) whistle, and although tight you can carefully twist his fixed head and get a good variation of tuning. It is one of my favorite whistles and a bargain at $36, playability and sound wise as well.
I recently "fixed" a Walton mellow tone D that just would not play using my poor variation of Jerry's technique. But that C Generation head would really be over my head.

Unless you are the type that really likes to take apart your Paxton Turbocharger, or Harley motor on the weekend, I can't see going wrong on the Freeman Tweaked Generation. And a lot less agravation when you crack the head and have to fix it.

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:17 pm

Which reminds me that I wanted to ask Jerry this and might as well ask publicly so others can see whether this is an option:

The mouthpiece on that old 1975 C Generation of mine is in bad shape, and I'd like to replace it. Do you (Jerry) offer new tweaked mouthpieces for old whistles? In other words, if I were to send you my old whistle, could you fit it with a new tweaked mouthpiece?

Thanks.

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:23 pm

When I buy whistles to tweak, they come with tubes, so it wouldn't make any difference to just send you a tweaked whistlehead. However, a new tweaked C Generation whistlehead will fit a vintage C tube, in case you want to use the tube you already have. You would end up with a spare tube.

Best wishes,
Jerry