Big flute for small hands

[crystalflute]

Okay so I caved and bought a low D Hall Crystal Flute. And my hands ache trying to cover the holes well. I figure eventually I can do this without a problem after I've gotten used to it. I can make it sound good when I get my hands to stretch. But the other problem. Slippery holes... my fingers are slipping on the holes a little bit.

Does anyone else with small hands have this problem with a bigger flute?

[Jon C.]

Have I got a flute for you!

[crystalflute]

LoL thanks, but I also have one of the piccolos. Much easier on the hands to play. But so darned high pitched. I still like it, but I like the lower toned D, too.

[ninjaaron]

You might try using a "pipers grip"

This makes the streach much easier and more natural. I believe the majority of tradtional flute players use this grip. I have largish hands, and I still use it on D flutes, simply because it it more comfortable and natural feeling. It also puts your rists at better angles, so it decreases incidences of tendonitise.

To do the piper's grip, you place your ring fingers on the holes as you normaly would, and cover the remaining holes with the second section of your other fingers (or even the second joint, if it feels better). This is weird at first, but it takes very little time before it feels much better. There may be some problems covering with this grip right at first, but it's hard to cover the holes right at first no matter what grip you use. I started doing it on my Low D whistle, and when I got a flute (or made, rather), it was a breeze (except the Blowing... still working on that).

here are some pictures




If you need further explanation, this web-site is a little more in depth:

http://www.thewhistleshop.com/beginners/lowd/lowd.htm

It's for Low Whistles, but they are basically the same insrument except for a bit of plastic (or metal, or wood) at the end. In fact, If you learn a few cool tunes on the flute, I highly recomend them. They play just the same, but easier to blow, and they sound beautiful. A bit stronger and rounder than the flute (though less possibility for shaping the tone, due to the very controled air stream). Low Whistles are considered to sound very haunting, probably because it is a sound that has not been used very much. Flute-like... but different... I don't believe they make crystal whistles however.

Sorry about the tangent. I'm really whitstle happy right now. No offence to flutes, they are quite rockin' as well.

[crystalflute]

You might try using a "pipers grip"

Thanks for the advice. I haven't yet mentioned your signature "Guitarist who got lost" makes me smile. I don't think anything is further from a guitar than a flute... well maybe a basoon (bassoon?).

[Unseen122]

No guitar is way farther away than Bassoon I play al three and I would say guitar is the most different.

[ninjaaron]

You might try using a "pipers grip"

Thanks for the advice. I haven't yet mentioned your signature "Guitarist who got lost" makes me smile. I don't think anything is further from a guitar than a flute... well maybe a basoon (bassoon?).

The trick is that I play a mostly heavy stuff on the guitar. I seldom play any form of folk music (I mean that in a narrow sense), and I rarely even touch my acoustic except to bang out some classical tunes.

I don't know how this whistle/flute stuff really got caught up to me.

That cello I just rented... I don't know if It's more different than the guitar, but it's a LOT harder than guitar and flute put together. Bowing technique is a pain. Cello and guitar are the most rockin' instruments ever to accompany solo sonats. That's my reasoning. Flute, whistle, and recorder music, accompanied by guitar or cello. Or both. Orgasm.

Say... your a keys player, aren't you? Ooo...

[Lambchop]

Slippery holes... my fingers are slipping on the holes a little bit.

Does anyone else with small hands have this problem with a bigger flute?

Yes, this is a problem if you have small hands. You just have to work at it gradually.

About the slippery holes . . . you're either slipping because your hands are too dry or because they're too wet.

If too dry, try moisturizing, but not with a hand cream that will get slick when your hands perspire. Plain Vaseline is ok. Put on a little bit and wipe the excess off on a towel. That should give you some traction and facilitate closing those holes.

Vaseline Deep Moisture Creamy and Vaseline Soothing Moisture Cocoa Butter both work better than just plain Vaseline, though. Bath & Body Works Antibacterial Hand Lotion, any flavor, may work well for you, too. These all provide a non-sticky film that doesn't absorb moisture from the air and your skin to get gummy or slick.

If you are slipping on the glass because you're sweating and cooling off doesn't help, there is an old trick of putting antiperspirant on your palms. Someone might know if Gorilla Snot works in that situation.

[alessandro]

I've just joined the forum. I beg you pardon if my considerations will prove 'out of date' or 'obsolete', but it seems to me that one of the 'western' flutists' major concern is (with) fingering. I only recently learnt about offset holes........people using their little finger to reach the last hole........and on and on. I'vo also learnt the existance of a so called 'piper grip'. The piper grip is the way everyone around the world play any woodwind instrument. It's a typical western limitation or obsession to play a flute with the fingertips. This is the result of the necessity to make everything easier and possible-by using mechanical devices such as keys. Forget your fingertips if you play - as i hope - a keyless flute.......relax ...(Robert Tipple's good piece of advice) stretch out your fingers and with less effort and practice as you expected or feared you will find easy to play any B or Bb keyless western flute even without the giant hands I keep hear mentioned on the net.
Sorry for the patronising tone but this is how I feel about the matter.
All the best
Alessandro

[Wormdiet]

I've just joined the forum. I beg you pardon if my considerations will prove 'out of date' or 'obsolete', but it seems to me that one of the 'western' flutists' major concern is (with) fingering. I only recently learnt about offset holes........people using their little finger to reach the last hole........and on and on. I'vo also learnt the existance of a so called 'piper grip'. The piper grip is the way everyone around the world play any woodwind instrument. It's a typical western limitation or obsession to play a flute with the fingertips. This is the result of the necessity to make everything easier and possible-by using mechanical devices such as keys. Forget your fingertips if you play - as i hope - a keyless flute.......relax ...(Robert Tipple's good piece of advice) stretch out your fingers and with less effort and practice as you expected or feared you will find easy to play any B or Bb keyless western flute even without the giant hands I keep hear mentioned on the net.
Sorry for the patronising tone but this is how I feel about the matter.
All the best
Alessandro

In my personal experience, there is no "right" way to finger a flute, only a most comfortable way for the individual.

I started music on GHB, and am therefore very comfortable with the idea of piper's grip. BUT. Upon receiving an Irish flute, I had to readjust my top hand grip to "standard" because piper's grip was uncomfortable, pain-inducing, and slow. But, I DO use PG for the lower hand, so it isn;t a question of bias, but one of individual ergonomics. One size fits all only works with elastic.

[Matt_Paris]

I started music on GHB, and am therefore very comfortable with the idea of piper's grip. BUT. Upon receiving an Irish flute, I had to readjust my top hand grip to "standard" because piper's grip was uncomfortable, pain-inducing, and slow. But, I DO use PG for the lower hand, so it isn;t a question of bias, but one of individual ergonomics. One size fits all only works with elastic.

I really know a lot of flute players who play PG only on the right hand, and "regular" grip on the left. I do that on flutes with big holes... But I play my RR small-holed with the tip of the fingers. I just feel more comfortable that way.

I also tried the "full piper grip", with the same conclusions than you. I just use it on big bansuris.

[Byron]

I also tried the "full piper grip", with the same conclusions than you. I just use it on big bansuris.

I'm using full piper grip on my small Dizi(s). The tight hole spacing makes me want to come at them more perpendicular.

I've tried my D flute with LH piper, but the weight of it causes me to revert to the security of Rockstro. My right hand seems to fan out in a piper-ish hold no matter what I'm playing.

Byron

[crystalflute]

Say... your a keys player, aren't you? Ooo...

I am a keys player and play in a classic rock band in town. We gig about 2 times a month and this whole darned flute thing arose out of playing Jethro Tull's Locomotive Breath with a synthesized flute. I luv my keys still, too.

And I bet I know why you like the flute thing... if you're like me, the flute is a hell of a lot easier to carry around than guitar + amp + cords + pedals. LoL I know that's the attraction for me.

[crystalflute]

I don't know if it's a western obsession with using finger tips... I just didn't know the piper's grip actually existed. And it's a lot better.

[ninjaaron]

And I bet I know why you like the flute thing... if you're like me, the flute is a hell of a lot easier to carry around than guitar + amp + cords + pedals. LoL I know that's the attraction for me.

Actually, It's kinda a long story.

There was this really weird guy at school (he was a west coast surfer boy living in Copenhagen. He would have seemed normal in California, but he was way the heck out of his element). He had himself a Low D whistle. I never had seen one of those before, but I sure did like it. He was great player. Not much in ITM (though he could do an ok job of that as well), but he did really cool sounding tribal stuff. Nearly made that whistle sound like a shakuhachi at times. really moody music. He could also whip out the blues and a few other cool things. (I like that, don't tell anyone here, but I like that more than ITM).

So I thought it was a flute at that time (which it is, in the technical sense). I had no idea it was really just a giant fruedian tin whistle. He told me they were big in Ireland. I happened to be going to Ireland later that year, so I made a point to pick up one of these magical little flute things. I went there, and found out that they really are just giant whistles after all. Bought one, and bought a soprano whistle as well (at $7, who can resist?). I also bought a book called (appropriately) "The Low Whistle Book". This book mentioned a good whistle website... it was called "chiffandfipple.com".

So I got here, and started asking around about ways to get more chromatic tones out of me whistles, being that I am a guitar player, and a chromatic whore at that. They had some good advice (which I use all the time now on my diatonic instruments), but what they said was that if I wanted to go truly chromatic, I would need to Get an Irish flute with keys. I found out that these start at around $500 used, for the Delrin ones. This is well outsided of my "poor college student" budget.

Then one day, I found Doug Tipples web site (a maker or premium PVC flutes). On his site, he had directions for building PVC flutes yourself. I did a few searches, and found out more about PVC flute building. I got some programs to help me calculate hole distances for different keys, and then I began building them.

9 flutes later, they are sounding better all the time. I've even figured out how to manipulate the program so it will give me finger hole locations to build fully chromatic eight hole flutes (a pinky hole, and a thumb hole, both on the right hand). On of these days, I'm going to start adding keys to them

This is my latest favorite:




It's a hot little chromatic G with a punchy tone and some fancy thread work.

I'm trying to start selling these by the way (flutes in all keys, chromatic or not. Any scale you like), contact me if your interested and I'll give you the run down...
ninjaaron@hotmail.com

Anyway, I do love the fact that I can stick it in my bag and take it anywere (I actully love my soprano whistles for this the best), but I think the major thing I like about these flutes is the fact that I can make good playing and good looking instruments. It's significantly more difficult to build a guitar.

I'm in hog heaven.