'Backstitching'

[upiper71]

I've heard this term used often enough in uilleann piping, does anyone know what this is referring to. When someone uses this term do they refer to the consistent ornamentations going up-and-down the chanter to climb down to the orignal first note(D for example)whilst playin o' tune?

upiper71 - Daryl

[Tony]

Patrick posted some examples:
http://www.uilleannobsession.com/faq.html
3/4 down the page

[Rick]

There are 2 ways i know of to "backstitch"

play 2nd octave e,f#,e with a rapid 1st octave c-a in between each 2nd octave note. (i type c, but it's actually a c#, like in the a-c-a triplet the c is actually a c#)
Same but do c-a-c in between notes.
Same but make the c-a-(c) an a-c-a triplet in the 1st octave.

so E-c-a-c, F#-c-a-c, E-c-a-c

It's hard to explain in words and you should really hear it.

It appears the 1st form is said to be backstitching proper by a lot of people and the rest is just.., well.., bollocks.. lol

I think i have only heard it being used one time properly without messing up the flow of the tune by Richard O'Meally
The harvest home is one tune you could stick it in for instance.

I don't like it as like i said, more often than not it's "look at what i can do" and fecks up the tune flow.

la la la la pippetypippetypippety la la la

Yuck!

Edit: you're better off looking at the link Tony posted than trying to understand what i just typed i guess.. hehe

[djm]

If you do a Search on this forum you will see this has come up before. There was a strong sentiment amongst some here that only the backstitching as delineated by Pat Mitchell in the Patsy Tuohey book from NPU is regarded as "proper" backstitching.

There are some backstitching exercises on Mick Coyne's on-line tutor under the Intermediate Practise Room. http://www.uilleannpipestutor.com/ In a recent interview in the Seattle Pipers' Club newsletter, Mick said he wanted to add even more backstitching exercises to his tutor. Mick is a big Andy Conroy fan, who was somewhat notorious for his runs of triplets and backstitching. This is reflected in Mick's own playing examples in the on-line tutor.

I would have to agree with Rick that too much of anything can spoil the sound of the tune. That being said, I appreciate the practise examples on Mick's site for learning chanter control.

djm

[upiper71]

Great replies guys. Thanks for the input, I'm really enjoying the semantics of the chanter work, and appreciating the ornamentation even more and more.

Thanks again.

Daryl

[Rick]

Here, a tune is worth more than a thousand notes.., or something..

http://ephemer.al.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/harvesthome.mp3

DJM, it's not that i never like it, but i seldomly hear it being used, more often abused.
It's very easy to screw up the flow of a tune with backstitching even if you do it once.

The above tune is one of the few i have heard it being used to fit the tune.

I must admit, Mick Coyne is a piece of work where backstitching and triplets are concerned.
Actually, Mick is a piece of work period!
And a very cool person.

[Cynth]

I have the CD called Seoltai Seidte and on CD2 Denis Murphy plays two reels, The Piper's Despair and Jim Kennedy's Favourite. I think in the first one, I am hearing backstitching in part B to make the fiddle mimic the pipes. There are definitely very noticeable little pip-pips. I imagine fiddlers could use this sort of ornamentation any time, but it has never been as noticeable as in this piece to me anyway---most of my fiddle listening has been Cape Breton fiddle, though, so I don't know.

[upiper71]

That's sounds good, but I imagine that a fiddle has a harder time to stop between notes, like a chanter can be coaxed to do.

Daryl

[piperdoc]

as rick said, harvest home is a good example. david power taught it in a workshop 16 months ago. he emphasized doing it staccato. i have tried a few times since, it is difficult to master and i hate it, but its great for your technique.
meir

[Joseph E. Smith]

Paddy Keenan plays a good example of backstitching with the Harvest Home. Makes my fingers itch just listening to it.

[Lorenzo]

Here's a couple pages of previous discussion...

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... ng&start=0

I like this visual:


Illustration (2): running backstitch

The numbers on these threads, from left to right, read 10<9, 7>8, 6<5, 3>4, 2<1.

[upiper71]

Thanks again guys for input on the Backstitching, you've been very helpful.