Brian Boru Pipes

[lordofthestrings]

So...

Anyone know anything about Brian Boru pipes? I know they are keyed (like modern orchestral instruments...sorta) and have an extended range from the typical 'plain' GHB.

Any players out there? I'd really like to know more about these, can;t find much info anywhere else.

[demon_piper]

If you google the pipes, there are two band in Ireland still using them I think. They are in Eb and play a chromatic scale as I remember. I believe they were invented in 1907 or 1917 by Henry Starck on commission to recreate an Irish war pipe. Hence, when the Irish claim an umbroken line of war pipe development citing the Boru, those proponents are incorrect and war pipes in that country were pretty much standardized with the Piob Mhor by the MacCrimmons.

Good luck with your further research, and I believe there are people who can make these reliably!

demon_piper

[wgority]

I got to try a set of them a few years back and they weigh a ton!

[The Sporting Pitchfork]

If you google the pipes, there are two band in Ireland still using them I think. They are in Eb and play a chromatic scale as I remember. I believe they were invented in 1907 or 1917 by Henry Starck on commission to recreate an Irish war pipe. Hence, when the Irish claim an umbroken line of war pipe development citing the Boru, those proponents are incorrect and war pipes in that country were pretty much standardized with the Piob Mhor by the MacCrimmons.

Good luck with your further research, and I believe there are people who can make these reliably!

demon_piper

Well, the chanter had a range down to low E; the drones were still in A (or probably a few cents sharp of A at that time)...More on this later. Brian Boru pipes were patented by Henry Starck around 1908 in an effort to cash in on the expanding Irish interest in bagpipes. The last recorded use of piob mhór-type bagpipes in Ireland had been in 1745 and they likely died out within a few of decades of that. By the late-19th century, Scottish pipes were becoming popular in mirror-image similarity among both Irish nationalist enthusiast types and Orange Order unionist types as a means of expressing their polar cultural opposition from one another. The Brian Boru pipes were touted as a wholly Irish form of "warpipes" (I've always detested that term, by the way) and the drones were supposedly based on an illustration of a seriously funky set of pipes played by an Irishman in a 15th-century engraving. I believe Starck's original design had a tenor and bass drone tuned to A and a baritone drone tuned to E, all in a large common stock, which would have made the pipes not very comfortable to march around with. Coupled to this was a chanter with 14 keys, most of which were useless and several of which were a serious detriment to the instrument because they made conventional GHB ornamentation impossible...Birls, grips, etc., went out the window. The upside was that the chanter played G#, which made a few common Irish tunes easier to play when transposed to the pipes' scale.

Naturally, those who had learned on conventional GHBs tended to find the new system more trouble than it was worth. Most people who did play the Brian Boru pipes opted to forego the crazy drone arrangement and just use the chanter with conventional GHB drones. Starck introduced a "Scottish System" chanter with fingering more amenable to GHB players, but it never took off.

It should be noted that Starck was by no means the first person to experiment with adding keys to GHB chanters. Malcolm Macgregor (famous for also inventing the UP barrel drones/regs shown in one of the UP forum threads) came up with what was apparently a very good keyed chanter in the early 1800s, but it was barred from competition usage as it was felt that it might give players an unfair advantage.

Chris Bayley makes both Irish & Scottish system Brian Boru chanters. Nigel Richard (aka "Garvie Bagpipes") also makes a nice keyed GHB chanter of his own design.

[Chris Bayley]

The BB Scottish system works just like the normal highland chanter - the downward extension keys are open and act as the vent holes so with all fingers down you still have the G. Closing the keys in turn give the F# and the E
Original Starcks tuned the G's sharp.
Mine has the G's as natural and a separate key for the sharp.
Not quite certain what Nigel does regarding tuning of the G but his design is similar and plays just like a normal chanter.
The Irish system is somewhat more problematic for the dedicated highland piper as fingers are all moved down a note to leave the pinky free to operate the keywork. Top thumbhole is now the seventh (g#) and to get top 'a' you use the key on the front of the chanter

[elbowmusic]

I've got a pakastani (they're kinda fugly) copy of Henry stark drones. So I've got a bass, tenor and a baritone drone. I just play a regular chanter (a souter) with the set, and the drones are kinda hard to tune up to pitch, but I love them. Playing with a baritone drone on highland pipes is really great.

[sean an piobaire]

I like my simple system 4 key Pakistani "Brian Boru" chanter
and I'm using it with the 2 drone "Irish" GHB configuration
(one Bass, one Tenor drone).
The drones, stocks,& blow-pipe are "schee-sham" wood,
painted black, with translucent white plastic mounts.
I polished out the inside of the drones with a drill rod
wrapped with fine steel wool and rotated in an electric drill.
The whole set is very light weight and I have it tied into the largest
L&M bag I could get. I have a narrow bore GHB chanter made by
Bob Thomas (RIP) which plays right on A=440 hz.
I alternate this chanter with "normal" GHB fingering
with the Brian Boru chanter, which is playing about
10 cents sharp of 440 hz. I just slide the drones up
their pins to retune to it.
Regards !
Sean Folsom

[CHasR]

Playing with a baritone drone on highland pipes is really great.

It's a Breton thing, too. Ive heard some Bagad players with that middle bari-drone thromming away..complex...

Actually, Ive got that 10 (or is it 11) key Pakistani Boru chanter; had to re-seat a few of the pads, bend a key here + there just to get it to seal...
Ive NEVER..(what after 5-6 years of trying) found a reed to sit happy in that thing.
Right now its a splendid wall ornament + conversation piece. Looks real good between my Vermeer print, lamp + brass thermometer.

[sean an piobaire]

Yes Chas !
You have to make your own reeds for the
Boru chanter in that old style "pre-Bb" GHB reed,
staple is 1 1/8 " long I.D. at the large end is 3/16ths,
the reed head is a full 1/2 " across the tip, and like multi-keyed
Northumbrian chanters (where every hole introduced into the bore
increases the chance of the whole scale going out of tune),
I think the 4 key chanter is more "DO-ABLE".
The more keys, the more PROBLEMATIC the chanter becomes !
Keeping it SIMPLE / SIMPLY YOURS
Sean Folsom

[CHasR]

Yes Chas !
You have to make your own reeds for the
Boru chanter in that old style "pre-Bb" GHB reed,
staple is 1 1/8 " long I.D. at the large end is 3/16ths,
the reed head is a full 1/2 " across the tip, and like multi-keyed
Northumbrian chanters (where every hole introduced into the bore
increases the chance of the whole scale going out of tune),
I think the 4 key chanter is more "DO-ABLE".
The more keys, the more PROBLEMATIC the chanter becomes !
Keeping it SIMPLE / SIMPLY YOURS
Sean Folsom

I'm keeping the dimensions, definitely, but , somehow , Im just not that motivated, yaknowhaddimean?
Have you checked this out yet? scroll down a wee bit...

http://dronefolks.informe.com/index.php

[Jeff Cullen]

I've had my eye out for a vintage Brian Boru pipe for a while, and one of these beasts became available on ebay a couple of weeks ago, so I grabbed it. It's in pretty nice shape, my guess is it's around WWI vintage, cocus wood, I think. I've acquired a lot of vintage sets of pipes, but I think I've only found one other vintage set that was as complete as this. The sheepskin bag was so deteriorated, it tore off like wet cardboard. It was fully reeded. I've started the restoration process....I'd like to be playing it within the next three months. The mouthpiece is wood, I think (although it might be horn). The nickel ferrules will need a lot of cleaning work. The mainstock ferrule is stamped with patent numbers and patent dates of 1908 and 1909.
The chanter reed is not playable...feel like making me another reed, Mr. Folsom? Just this one more, I swear!

[sean an piobaire]

Of Course I'll make a Reed For THIS Set , Mr. Cullen !
How simply marvelous it is to have an original Henry Stark REED.
At least that's what it might be, unless it's a practice Chanter
Reed that someone put in the Reed seat, a long time ago ?
What do you have to say, Jeff, as the experienced Piper
you are ? Can it be..... THE Chanter Reed ?
As Vasil Bebeleckov would say...."In-ter-rest" !
Sean Folsom

[Ian Lawther]

Intersting to note that the patent numbers shown on the stock do not correspond with the numbers on the patent documents which 23839 (1908) and 24305 (1909). A previous patent, 19831 (1906) outlined the instrument but was not so specific on details. The later two covered the Irish and Scottish system chanters in detail.

The 1906 patent has a drawing of the reed which is dimensionally more akin to what we would expect from a pipe chanter reed rather than what you have which looks more like PC dimensions. The note with the drawing simply states "Reed of 7/16ths of an inch", which doesn't really mean anything.

The later patents do not appear to mention the reed (but I am just scanning quickly) but go into great detail on the key arrangements.

Ian

[piobaire]

I acquired a set of BB pipes a couple of years ago. The pipes have the full-keyed GHB system. The pipes had been sitting in a cupboard for 50 years, so needed a bit of work. To date, I've cleaned the timbers & ferrules, etc, reeded the drones, re-hemped everything and made a new bag using the original as a template. All I have to do next is to replace some of the keypads and springs and try to reed it up! (I've got the original bag cover, but it is a write-off.)

NB: Going from memory (without digging the pipes out of the shed), I don't think there is any writing stamped in the drone stock ferrule, however inscribed near the top of the chanter is "A P Sykes / Melbourne / H Starck / Patentee London".

Anyone got any ideas on what/how/where to start with new keypads & springs and chanter reeds. (I've got a make-your-own-chanter-kit, but haven't tried fiddling yet). It is possible to modify a modern GHB chanter reed to suit, or just go with the dimensions previously given in another post? I know of a local woodwind repairer who might be able to do something with the keys, but any assistance would be appreciated.

Geoff Jones
Bannockburn, Vic. Aust.

[Jeff Cullen]

I've made some progress on the restoration. The nickel ferrules were easier to clean once I found out how...bath each in a bathroom cleaner called "Kaboom" in the U.S. (...called "Bang" in France)....then wipe each with a cotton cloth, and buff with 0000 streel wool. After cleaning it became evident that the nickel ferrules are actually brass. The wood has been cleaned and oiled.