Low F# note on Hamilton Flute

[Slayer]

Hi folks
Recently I have received Hamilton keyless and is admired with this flute!
That sound what I wanted to hear from a flute - strong, complex, with character.
Tuning also is very good, the low and high octaves correspond completely, except for one note - low F#. This note is appreciablly lower than the others hearing. While I in any way cannot will tame it to sound in a melody with other notes of a flute.
On Hammy's records (I have received a disk with his album also) flutes sounds perfectly and in a melody everywhere! He plays perfectly and very dynamically. I try to direct a current of air hardly above (on a tangent to a flute), than for other notes is works. But such way very inconvenient for me while, also demands the big attention and concentration.
Probably, there are other ways, or my way - is unique correct?...
I shall be grateful for any councils

[jim stone]

I've played one Hamilton flute, had it long enough to actually
know it. It was keyed. The F# was flat and, as I recall,
the A was sharp. Don't know if it was this particular flute,
me, or what--however the owner agreed there were
internal tuning issues.

If I may speculate--my impression is that 19th century
flutes tended to have these issues on these notes,
and they were more pronounced on Pratten style flutes.
So my Olwell Pratten, while well enough in tune, has
more tuning issues than my narrower bore flutes.
FWIW. The Hammy is definitely a Prattenish flute,
and may have inherited some of these issues.

I think it was common with the older flutes to 'blow them
in tune.' One of the things this involves is rolling the
flute out to blow the F# in tune. (Keys helped too, venting
some of them could lift the F#, but I appreciate you
have none.) This ought to do it, I reckon, and, if you
practice, it will become second nature.

Hope this helps. Maybe others can give
more insight. Of course you can also contact
the maker. Jim (4 1/2 years and still at it).

[Slayer]

Thank you Jim.
Yes, I think, that Hamilton is based on Pratten style. I read, that these flutes had problems with tuning for some notes. My flute plays very precisely in a melody with me, except for only one note.
If to get used to rolling a flute on F#, it can is valid to become a habit from which it will be always possible to play in tune.
It is interesting to me, it really will work, or somebody else knows other ways? I do not want to refuse from Hamilton only because of one note. The sound of this flute is absolutely surprising and is pleasant to me very much!

[jim stone]

Just to add that, if you do try rolling the flute out on that
note, a good way to begin is by simply lifting your chin.

[kayaal]

I have a Grinter and The F# is flat.However if you blow very hard it comes into tune with a great resonance.I think this note is flat on many simple system flutes. It is one of the great things about the sound of the Irish flute. By 'blowing' a note into tune we create the very sound we are after. Very effective in slow tunes. Of course the opposite holds true also, with a sharp note we must ease off with the breath or blow deeper into the flute.

[Whistlin'Dixie]

I do not want to refuse from Hamilton only because of one note. The sound of this flute is absolutely surprising and is pleasant to me very much!

In my opinion, there is nothing quite like the sound of a Hammy, or the feel of it in one's hands. That flute can really blow me away!

That said, I too, noticed a bit of a "problem" with certain notes, at first. Surprisingly, the more I played it, the less I noticed it. I believe I compensated for the "off" notes, somehow, without really noticing how I was doing it. Maybe I blew a bit differently, maybe I unconciously changed my emboucher while I played, whatever. if I didn't play it for a few days I lost my emboucher, I guess, and then the flute would sound "off" again for awhile.

I could verify this with my tuner, FWIW, and also from my recordings of myself playing along with CD's.

Anyway, I have heard from some folks who say they never played a Hammy that was out of tune. I think those are the folks who have the emboucher we are all striving for.....

I haven't got it yet, so I'm still working on it.

M

Oh, yeah, sorry. Playing wooden flute 5 years now
No sound files to share thus far... so please don't listen to my advice, I don't know what I'm talking aboot....

[kkrell]

I have found the F# on Olwells to be flatter, by design. Hammy might be a little, but I think not as much, although his low D is usually flat. Any possibility that the head cork has moved in shipping, or any small objects stuck in the bore? OK, I mention this because the little separator in the case came out and ended up in the foot, and I tooted, wondering Oh, my goodness! What in the world?, as the tuning was nuts. The normal tuning quirks are usually solved just by using your ear and automatically adjusting for them.

Kevin Krell

[jim stone]

I do not want to refuse from Hamilton only because of one note. The sound of this flute is absolutely surprising and is pleasant to me very much!

In my opinion, there is nothing quite like the sound of a Hammy, or the feel of it in one's hands. That flute can really blow me away!

That said, I too, noticed a bit of a "problem" with certain notes, at first. Surprisingly, the more I played it, the less I noticed it. I believe I compensated for the "off" notes, somehow, without really noticing how I was doing it. Maybe I blew a bit differently, maybe I unconciously changed my emboucher while I played, whatever. if I didn't play it for a few days I lost my emboucher, I guess, and then the flute would sound "off" again for awhile.

I could verify this with my tuner, FWIW, and also from my recordings of myself playing along with CD's.

Anyway, I have heard from some folks who say they never played a Hammy that was out of tune. I think those are the folks who have the emboucher we are all striving for.....

I haven't got it yet, so I'm still working on it.

M

Oh, yeah, sorry. Playing wooden flute 5 years now
No sound files to share thus far... so please don't listen to my advice, I don't know what I'm talking aboot....

With beloved out of tune instruments, I also found the more
I played the thing, the better it sounded. If I stopped for a few
days and came back to it,
it sounded out of tune again. In my case I reached the
conclusion that I had simply learned to hear the out of
tune instrument as in tune--after all, what's 'in tune' really,
except what we're used to?

I do wonder if what we've run into is or is not
common for Hammy's flutes. The flute I played
sounded wonderful--except it was pretty out of tune.
Slayer has it too. But that's two flutes. Kevin's
flute is fine. I doubt that there is some slight
problem here--the tuning problems, when they appear,
follow precisely
the configuration of tuning problems in the 19th
century flutes.

I agree with Kevin about the slight flatness of the Olwell
Pratten Fsharp (the only Olwell I really know), but
the Hammy's Fsharp flatness exceeded that considerably.

Just to be clear I think these are great flutes.
anybody know what's going on?

[Whistlin'Dixie]

With beloved out of tune instruments, I also found the more
I played the thing, the better it sounded. If I stopped for a few
days and came back to it,
it sounded out of tune again. In my case I reached the
conclusion that I had simply learned to hear the out of
tune instrument as in tune--after all, what's 'in tune' really,
except what we're used to?

Well, I'm willing to concede that point!

M

[cocusflute]

If you are blowing softly then a flute will sound out of tune. I don't mean blowing quietly, but rather with an unfocused or undeveloped embouchure.

When your embouchure is strong and you can focus your breath and your energy then the flute will be in tune. I have never played on a Hammy that was out of tune. Every Hammy that I've played has a big sound and was perfectly tuned.

If you have an undeveloped embouchure and your tone is "fuffy" then most flutes will sound out of tune to you. If they don't it's probably because you don't know what to listen for.

The worst is to sit in a session with somebody who, because of a weak embouchure (one result of not playing every day), is over-blowing to get the high notes. They will blow terribly sharp and not even know it. Or, if they do know it, will blame the flute.

[Slayer]

Kevin,
I do not think, that the stopper could be shifted at transportation - the flute was carried by the person, accurately
kayaal and cocusflute speak the truth - when I blow strongly and powerfully, the flute comes back in a melody practically completely. If a stream of air is not enough strong, that is necessary to have rolling of a flute.
I believe, practice will learn me to sound well on this fine flute

[jim stone]

If you are blowing softly then a flute will sound out of tune. I don't mean blowing quietly, but rather with an unfocused or undeveloped embouchure.

When your embouchure is strong and you can focus your breath and your energy then the flute will be in tune. I have never played on a Hammy that was out of tune. Every Hammy that I've played has a big sound and was perfectly tuned.

If you have an undeveloped embouchure and your tone is "fuffy" then most flutes will sound out of tune to you. If they don't it's probably because you don't know what to listen for.

The worst is to sit in a session with somebody who, because of a weak embouchure (one result of not playing every day), is over-blowing to get the high notes. They will blow terribly sharp and not even know it. Or, if they do know it, will blame the flute.

I have a strong and developed embouchure--at least that's
what my teachers have told me. Playing two hours a day
for over four years has helped. I may be able to provide a
sample at some point, I don't have the equipment I need,
according to people answering my request for this info
onboard, and we're rt now on the road. Things are in fact
very crazy rt now. Like to do it, in any case.

Also the flute in question was judged out of tune by
another experienced player. If you testify you've
never played an out of tune Hammy, I believe you.
And I suppose you've played a number of them.
So I'm baffled. Yes, the flute had a big wonderful
sound. And was a good deal easier to handle than
I expected.

As I read it, most people are saying the Hammy's
they've played/owned were well in tune. Slayer
now says his flute is in tune. So I conclude that there
is no widespread tuning issue with these flutes.

[Slayer]

Yes, more likely it not a problem, and feature of Hamilton flutes. It is necessary to get used simply to them and to play definitely. I frequently now listen to a disk received from Hammy, and I understand, how this flute can perfectly sound

[Brazenkane]

I believe (w/all due respect) this is much about nothing. One plays a flute and interacts with it. Even the best handmade classical woodwinds have to be played "in tune;" and I mean played with a capital VERB!

Many who are young in ITM and/or come from a different musical discipline may (at times) try to hold traditional instruments up to a Strobe-Tuner-like standard. Tis' a serious loosing proposition IMHO

Realistically (and feasibly) one ought to try and understand why the intervals on a simple system flute line up the way the do e.g. why if played "straight," (just blowing over the hole in the head joint- are some notes flat to their sisters an octave up etc.?

Recently, I was discussing, w/ a very well known maker, the fine details between of getting a C# and a (unkeyed) Cnat to be far enough apart to sound "right.". These details are worth knowing so you can understand why things are the way they are. After you understand all that and contemplate...myhumble recommendation is to FORGET it all, get off the Internet, and make some music!

Do you think John McKenna was laboring over this stuff?

[Brazenkane]

I believe (w/all due respect) this is much about nothing. One plays a flute and interacts with it. Even the best handmade classical woodwinds have to be played "in tune;" and I mean played with a capital VERB!

Many who are young in ITM and/or come from a different musical discipline may (at times) try to hold traditional instruments up to a Strobe-Tuner-like standard. Tis' a serious loosing proposition IMHO

Realistically (and feasibly) one ought to try and understand why the intervals on a simple system flute line up the way the do e.g. why if played "straight," (just blowing over the hole in the head joint- are some notes flat to their sisters an octave up etc.?

Recently, I was discussing, w/ a very well known maker, the fine details between of getting a C# and a (unkeyed) Cnat to be far enough apart to sound "right.". These details are worth knowing so you can understand why things are the way they are. After you understand all that and contemplate...myhumble recommendation is to FORGET it all, get off the Internet, and make some music!

Do you think John McKenna was laboring over this stuff?