G'day everyone,
I've been having a great time over the last week making Flutes from Electricians conduit...... (the orange coloured pipe here in Oz)..
These were made using Doug Tipples and Pete Kosels designs..
I could'nt believe how well they work almost straight from the drill press !
However,I became a bit deflated after trying to shape the embouchure,and basicly making the Flutes unplayable..the two that I did'nt mess with still work !!...
Would anyone know of any resources on the Internet that goes into the details of shaping the embouchure, undercutting sound holes,tuning and things of that nature ???
I'd also like to say a big thank you to Doug Tipple and Pete Kosel here for sharing their knowledge...
'spose thats about all for now.........all the best ...weedie...
Shaping the Embouchure..
Re: Shaping the Embouchure..
Um, frankly, it looks as though you have answered your own question.weedie wrote:...These were made using Doug Tipples and Pete Kosels designs..
I could'nt believe how well they work almost straight from the drill press !
However,I became a bit deflated after trying to shape the embouchure,and basicly making the Flutes unplayable..the two that I did'nt mess with still work !!...
Would anyone know of any resources on the Internet that goes into the details of shaping the embouchure, undercutting sound holes,tuning and things of that nature ???...
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chas
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You might want to check out the flutemakers list on yahoo groups. Browse/search the archives-- there isn't a short answer or a standard way to do it.
Charlie
Whorfin Woods
"Our work puts heavy metal where it belongs -- as a music genre and not a pollutant in drinking water." -- Prof Ali Miserez.
Whorfin Woods
"Our work puts heavy metal where it belongs -- as a music genre and not a pollutant in drinking water." -- Prof Ali Miserez.
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Greg The Pianotuner
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I have made dozens of one-piece D flutes, using Doug's design. I make them with my students at school and give them away, saving the best for our Irish session. Here's what I do;
1) when I drill the embouchure hole, I enlarge the hole SLIGHTLY from side to side by tilting the hand drill. I file off material under the hole at the far edge, because you need to have a sharp edge to blow into, not a flat wall.
2) using a round file, I undercut the holes on the side toward the blowing end. That is, I stick the file in the hole and remove PVC as best as I can without enlarging the hole.
3) using a sharp pocket knife with a small blade, I carefully cut off the sharp edge of each finger hole, making a bevel by taking off only enough material to round off the edge. I have not been successful in doing this with a file. I don't do this for the embouchure hole.
4) I don't use the 7/16 bit anymore, because the hole it makes is too ragged for me to clean up. Instead, I use my 3/8 bit and then ream out
the hole with the drill by wiggling it slightly, then file the rest.
I keep one in every room of my house, and a few in my car. I play the bst one every Monday night at our session. My 7th grade music classes make a modified design (1/2" PVC, pitched in C) that is much kid-friendlier to play. They decorate them with Sharpies and stickers, compose and perform 16 bars of music, plus simple folk tunes, then keep them as souvenirs.
1) when I drill the embouchure hole, I enlarge the hole SLIGHTLY from side to side by tilting the hand drill. I file off material under the hole at the far edge, because you need to have a sharp edge to blow into, not a flat wall.
2) using a round file, I undercut the holes on the side toward the blowing end. That is, I stick the file in the hole and remove PVC as best as I can without enlarging the hole.
3) using a sharp pocket knife with a small blade, I carefully cut off the sharp edge of each finger hole, making a bevel by taking off only enough material to round off the edge. I have not been successful in doing this with a file. I don't do this for the embouchure hole.
4) I don't use the 7/16 bit anymore, because the hole it makes is too ragged for me to clean up. Instead, I use my 3/8 bit and then ream out
the hole with the drill by wiggling it slightly, then file the rest.
I keep one in every room of my house, and a few in my car. I play the bst one every Monday night at our session. My 7th grade music classes make a modified design (1/2" PVC, pitched in C) that is much kid-friendlier to play. They decorate them with Sharpies and stickers, compose and perform 16 bars of music, plus simple folk tunes, then keep them as souvenirs.
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Doug_Tipple
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I use a 10 mm circular-shaped embouchure for my flutes. Because of the large bore (20 mm) of the pipe that I use for the low D flute, I have found from experience that larger embouchure holes take too much air to blow. I have made flutes with larger oval holes, for example, but in side by side comparisons by accomplished Irish session players, these flutes were not preferred over my standard smaller embouchure.
With regard to cutting the embouchure hole, the following Yamaha
factory tour may be informative.
While the information at the Yamaha site is about constructing a embouchure with a riser and lip plate on a silver flute, I think that the information is relevant to constructing an embouchure on an Irish flute. One of the important ideas is that cutting a good playing embouchure is one of the most difficult tasks in flutemaking. With silver flutes this task is reserved for the most experienced craftsmen. Another idea is that there is no one way to cut an embouchure hole, as different cuts produce different sounds. For professional players of the Boehm-style silver flute, it is not uncommon for a player to have several headjoints with different embouchure cuts depending on the sound that they want for the type of music that they are playing.
With regard to cutting an embouchure on a flute made from schedule 40 pvc pipe without a lip plate, my advice is to not to make the blowing angle too steep. I like to have something to blow against for some back pressure. Embouchures that are cut quite steeply will play with a louder tone but will take more air to fill the flute. Since pvc pipe is so inexpensive, it isn't difficult to try various embouchure cuts to see which one you prefer.
With regard to cutting the embouchure hole, the following Yamaha
factory tour may be informative.
While the information at the Yamaha site is about constructing a embouchure with a riser and lip plate on a silver flute, I think that the information is relevant to constructing an embouchure on an Irish flute. One of the important ideas is that cutting a good playing embouchure is one of the most difficult tasks in flutemaking. With silver flutes this task is reserved for the most experienced craftsmen. Another idea is that there is no one way to cut an embouchure hole, as different cuts produce different sounds. For professional players of the Boehm-style silver flute, it is not uncommon for a player to have several headjoints with different embouchure cuts depending on the sound that they want for the type of music that they are playing.
With regard to cutting an embouchure on a flute made from schedule 40 pvc pipe without a lip plate, my advice is to not to make the blowing angle too steep. I like to have something to blow against for some back pressure. Embouchures that are cut quite steeply will play with a louder tone but will take more air to fill the flute. Since pvc pipe is so inexpensive, it isn't difficult to try various embouchure cuts to see which one you prefer.
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weedie
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Thanks very much for the helpful replies folks..there's lots of new stuff to look at AND think about....
And to um,frankly,Mr Cork. for the cheap shot....um,frankly,I think that there is probably a bit more to the embouchure shaping than simply drilling a 3/8 hole and smoothing the edges....thats why I ,um,frankly asked a question here........weedie.....
And to um,frankly,Mr Cork. for the cheap shot....um,frankly,I think that there is probably a bit more to the embouchure shaping than simply drilling a 3/8 hole and smoothing the edges....thats why I ,um,frankly asked a question here........weedie.....
No cheap shot intended, weedie.
A flute is a collection of many details, including the sizes of the holes, and just where they each go. Ultimately, in making or modifying a flute, either you have your own design, or you have somebody else's design, to work with, and it appeared as though you had already found some successful designs.
A flute is a collection of many details, including the sizes of the holes, and just where they each go. Ultimately, in making or modifying a flute, either you have your own design, or you have somebody else's design, to work with, and it appeared as though you had already found some successful designs.
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weedie
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Fair enough Mr. Cork...If you say there was no nastiness intended,well then I accept that...
I've always gone with the philosophy that if you dont ask questions,you remain uneducated...even if the questions may appear to be silly....
I suppose the basis of my post was to maybe find out WHY the flutes became duds after I took off some material from the embouchre area.....For sure,trial and error is probably the best way to learn but I reckon it also helps to have someone in the know to give some direction..
....I've got some things to learn,some things to experiment with....
Lets hope we can be mates...regards from Oz.......weedie....
I've always gone with the philosophy that if you dont ask questions,you remain uneducated...even if the questions may appear to be silly....
I suppose the basis of my post was to maybe find out WHY the flutes became duds after I took off some material from the embouchre area.....For sure,trial and error is probably the best way to learn but I reckon it also helps to have someone in the know to give some direction..
....I've got some things to learn,some things to experiment with....
Lets hope we can be mates...regards from Oz.......weedie....
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Jon C.
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- Tell us something.: I restore 19th century flutes, specializing in Rudall & Rose, and early American flutes. I occasionally make new flutes. Been at it for about 15 years.
- Location: San Diego
Re: Shaping the Embouchure..
Try a nice oval using a dremel or flex shaft: 12.5x 10.2 mm. Cut all the way around with a 5 deg angle, undercut the upper and lower wall of the embouchure, rounding the wall slightly. adjust first and second octave by making the slope on the blowing edge wall more severe will give a stronger second octave. make sure the blowing edge wall is perfectly flat. The wall closer to you can be rounded slightly.weedie wrote:G'day everyone,
I've been having a great time over the last week making Flutes from Electricians conduit...... (the orange coloured pipe here in Oz)..
These were made using Doug Tipples and Pete Kosels designs..
I could'nt believe how well they work almost straight from the drill press !
However,I became a bit deflated after trying to shape the embouchure,and basicly making the Flutes unplayable..the two that I did'nt mess with still work !!...
Would anyone know of any resources on the Internet that goes into the details of shaping the embouchure, undercutting sound holes,tuning and things of that nature ???
I'd also like to say a big thank you to Doug Tipple and Pete Kosel here for sharing their knowledge...
'spose thats about all for now.........all the best ...weedie...
"I love the flute because it's the one instrument in the world where you can feel your own breath. I can feel my breath with my fingers. It's as if I'm speaking from my soul..."
Michael Flatley
Jon
Michael Flatley
Jon
Re: Shaping the Embouchure..
I once tried to make my own really simple flute, out of hardware store material. I didn't have any guidelines other than some pictures to study. My efforts then amounted to a complete failure, ah well.Jon C. wrote:...Try a nice oval using a dremel or flex shaft: 12.5x 10.2 mm. Cut all the way around with a 5 deg angle, undercut the upper and lower wall of the embouchure, rounding the wall slightly. adjust first and second octave by making the slope on the blowing edge wall more severe will give a stronger second octave. make sure the blowing edge wall is perfectly flat. The wall closer to you can be rounded slightly.
If only I then had some advise such as you have just given!
;-)