The Flute Market : Supply & Demand

[Cubitt]

Perhaps it's just me, but I've never found that any flute I've ever played, metal, wood, or otherwise either improved or got worse with extended or repeated playing. It is what it is in the first few minutes of playing, in my experience.

I've been fortunate to have sampled well over 50 flutes over the years, and I have found most of them wanting, which really surprises me.

As testament to my objectivity, the first flute I found that I liked better than my Casey Burns flute ended up being a Casey Burns flute, although I did not know that until I had purchased it. The point here is not that Casey's flutes are necessarily the best; just that it made sense that if I were being truly honest with myself about whether a flute I was trying was really superior to mine that I would at least find another Burns flute to be the equal if not the better compared to my own. My vintage eight-key is the best flute I've ever played, bar none. When Jon C replaced a key for me, he commented that he knew why I liked it so much because of the way the embouchure was cut. All I knew was that it responded the way I wanted it to.

From the foregoing, I conclude that any flute you purchase should be either tried first, or the maker should offer a window of time within which it can be returned. I would NEVER buy a flute for which there is a waiting period without having tried one first. To me, that's insanity, no matter how highly recommended.

[cadancer]

I would NEVER buy a flute for which there is a waiting period without having tried one first. To me, that's insanity, no matter how highly recommended.

John stands up and accepts the mantle of the insane.

...john

P.S. I love my new flute. You're welcome to try it too, if you want. Finn McCools ?

[Denny]

To me, that's insanity, no matter how highly recommended.

insanity...musician

[Cubitt]

I would NEVER buy a flute for which there is a waiting period without having tried one first. To me, that's insanity, no matter how highly recommended.

John stands up and accepts the mantle of the insane.

...john

P.S. I love my new flute. You're welcome to try it too, if you want. Finn McCools ?

I'm glad. What is it? Were you ever even a teensy bit afraid?

[Jayhawk]

Perhaps it's just me, but I've never found that any flute I've ever played, metal, wood, or otherwise either improved or got worse with extended or repeated playing. It is what it is in the first few minutes of playing, in my experience.

While I agree the flute really doesn't change much (although wood does change a bit over time - otherwise Casey wouldn't want them back for a tune-up), I do think my view of some flutes has changed with time. Usually, it's because I've become a better player, or learned to play that particular flute more in tune, or have discovered something in the flute that I hadn't noticed before (not fungus ...but maybe a voice I could get out of it). For me, my relationship with a fltue is constantly changing and evolving. Then again, maybe that's because I haven't been playing flute all that long (about 5 years now).

I do know if a flute gets worse with extended playing I need to be searching for a leaky cork or key.

I can't imagine a flute being just what it is after playing it for just a few minutes.

Eric

[Cubitt]

Perhaps it's just me, but I've never found that any flute I've ever played, metal, wood, or otherwise either improved or got worse with extended or repeated playing. It is what it is in the first few minutes of playing, in my experience.

While I agree the flute really doesn't change much (although wood does change a bit over time - otherwise Casey wouldn't want them back for a tune-up), I do think my view of some flutes has changed with time. Usually, it's because I've become a better player, or learned to play that particular flute more in tune, or have discovered something in the flute that I hadn't noticed before (not fungus ...but maybe a voice I could get out of it). For me, my relationship with a fltue is constantly changing and evolving. Then again, maybe that's because I haven't been playing flute all that long (about 5 years now).

I do know if a flute gets worse with extended playing I need to be searching for a leaky cork or key.

I can't imagine a flute being just what it is after playing it for just a few minutes.

Eric

What I meant is that I don't feel the need to "live with a flute" for an extended period before I can evaluate it. Yes, I have changed a great deal since I first got my CB flute, but my perception of the quality of the instrument remains the same.

[Jayhawk]

I agree with you there - I do tend to know if I like a flute or not right off the bat.

Sorry I misunderstood what you were expressing.

Eric

[cadancer]

I'm glad. What is it? Were you ever even a teensy bit afraid?

McGee Pratten, keyless.

Not afraid, no.

There are number of quality flutemakers, of which Terry is one, that make outstanding instruments.

If I can make an analogy, it is like evaluating an automobile from, say, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Porche. All three makers build quality vehicles. You *will* get a quality product when you buy one.

Now whether it is the "best" one for your skill, taste, and usage... that is another matter.

What I did know was that I wanted a quality instrument that was fun to pick up and play. I was drawn to Terry due to his openness, willingness to help others, and his artistic and engineering skills. I knew that I would be happy anytime I got to play an instrument of that lineage.

If someday I find a flute that I like better, so be it. (I already know what I want - McGee in C, Bb, or A). In the meantime, I have a truely wonderful instrument. I know that anything lacking in my music now rests solely with me.

Best wishes,

John

[Cubitt]

I'm glad. What is it? Were you ever even a teensy bit afraid?

McGee Pratten, keyless.

Not afraid, no.

There are number of quality flutemakers, of which Terry is one, that make outstanding instruments.

If I can make an analogy, it is like evaluating an automobile from, say, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Porche. All three makers build quality vehicles. You *will* get a quality product when you buy one.

Now whether it is the "best" one for your skill, taste, and usage... that is another matter.

What I did know was that I wanted a quality instrument that was fun to pick up and play. I was drawn to Terry due to his openness, willingness to help others, and his artistic and engineering skills. I knew that I would be happy anytime I got to play an instrument of that lineage.

If someday I find a flute that I like better, so be it. (I already know what I want - McGee in C, Bb, or A). In the meantime, I have a truely wonderful instrument. I know that anything lacking in my music now rests solely with me.

Best wishes,

John

Fair enough, but if I can build on your analogy, are you saying that you would recommend that a buyer randomly pick one of the three car manufacturers you cited with the expectation that one is as good as the other? And would you really buy one without a test drive?

I have tried enough flutes that others loved and I found disappointing to know that it's a crap shoot to buy an instrument based on recommendation alone. On the other hand, I would expect that Terry would cheerfully take a flute back if it disappointed, or he would try to find out what was lacking, and fix it if he could. But to enter such an agreement with longer than a six-month wait is something I would be highly reluctant to do. Just my opinion, though.

[Aanvil]

Even just seeing one and holding it in your hands is a big help as opposed to simply buying it from a picture. Man, these derlin flutes are heavy! You could bludgen a man to death with a single blow! I had no idea what the material was like. You could run over it with a truck I think.

Depends on who makes them.

Mine is pretty light and its also well balanced. The latter being more important IMHO.

Run it over with a truck?

It would probably be fine but I'd rather try the bludgeoning test.


Alan, I'll rue the day you find a flute you like better than your Cubitt.

I swear the bottom will drop out of the universe.

[Cubitt]

Alan, I'll rue the day you find a flute you like better than your Cubitt.

I swear the bottom will drop out of the universe.

Nope. I'll simply buy it. That's how I ended up with what I've got so far. Good, better, best. I have no investment in thinking my Cubitt is the best I've played. It simply is. I like playing too much to pass up a better flute, should I run across one, although, I confess, I'm not actively searching. Still, you have been with me through the trial of better than 20 flutes, so I'm not exactly out of the marketplace. In fact, when we got together with Kevin Krell, I specifically asked him to bring his collection because I knew he had some instruments I had seen touted on this site. I'm very intrigued with what modern makers are turning out, because they weren't around when I first got into playing Irish. If someone's built a better mousetrap, I want to know about it.

BTW, how are you?

[Aanvil]

Alan, I'll rue the day you find a flute you like better than your Cubitt.

I swear the bottom will drop out of the universe.

Nope. I'll simply buy it. That's how I ended up with what I've got so far. Good, better, best. I have no investment in thinking my Cubitt is the best I've played. It simply is. I like playing too much to pass up a better flute, should I run across one, although, I confess, I'm not actively searching. Still, you have been with me through the trial of better than 20 flutes, so I'm not exactly out of the marketplace. In fact, when we got together with Kevin Krell, I specifically asked him to bring his collection because I knew he had some instruments I had seen touted on this site. I'm very intrigued with what modern makers are turning out, because they weren't around when I first got into playing Irish. If someone's built a better mousetrap, I want to know about it.

BTW, how are you?

I'm just teasing you.

Besides I know how you feel... Jon owns that one flute I am just smitten with. Its just like Rapunzel up there on top of that mountain instead of a tower and Jon isn't a grizzly old witch but a nice man and only a little grizzly and he'd probably let me visit it any time... other than that. Its just like Rapunzel.

Oh, and I'm fine. Where did the summer go!?!

Call me or email me.

We should plan a get together or something.

[s1m0n]

As testament to my objectivity, the first flute I found that I liked better than my Casey Burns flute ended up being a Casey Burns flute, although I did not know that until I had purchased it. The point here is not that Casey's flutes are necessarily the best; just that it made sense that if I were being truly honest with myself about whether a flute I was trying was really superior to mine that I would at least find another Burns flute to be the equal if not the better compared to my own.

It sounds to me like that what the blind taste test proved was that you'd done a good job of learning how best to blow one of Casey's flutes.

Which is what I mean by "several days". It's not that the flute will improve over that time, but that you'll start to work out how to approach that flute. Before then, all you're doing is detecting how well it responds to the technique you use for the flute you have. The more similar it is, the better its going to sounds on first toot.

Which doesn't really tell if it is, in fact, a better flute.

[cadancer]

Fair enough, but if I can build on your analogy, are you saying that you would recommend that a buyer randomly pick one of the three car manufacturers you cited with the expectation that one is as good as the other? And would you really buy one without a test drive?

My choice for one of Terry's flutes was not random. And no, I would not recommend that someone use a random selection process.

My point in using the analogy was not to suggest randomness, but to suggest that the manufacturer's vehicles are all quality vehicles. If you study the types of cars, you will find that each vendor has a philosophy that is (generally) expressed in their final product.

So, to over simplify.
1. Quality sports car - Porsche
2. Quality sports sedan - BMW
3. Quality luxury sedan - Mercedes

Would I buy one without a test drive? No, because I don't have to. In addition, I am a pretty good driver and my driving impressions would carry some weight. I might buy one untested if I lived somewhere where I could not test drive it. There are lots of magazines and other resources from which to do research. I would trust the consensus of expert drivers and match that against my own list of things for which I am looking.

In my case and considering the issue of buying a flute. I am not an expert flute player. So, in my opinion, a consensus of more experienced players is probably a better way for me to choose a flute than trusting my own impressions.

If I were in your situation, being an experienced flute player, I would not need expert advice from others, as I would be able to make a judgement on the flute myself. I would be more inclined to want to try out the instrument and judge it for myself.

Best wishes,

John

[cocusflute]

Flutes are like lawyers- there are too many of them but the good ones are always in demand.