Duponol

devondancer · Post by **devondancer** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:58 am

Does anyone know where you can get Duponol in the UK? I can't find it anywhere. Is there an English substitute that you know of? I'm currently using Fairy liquid but would like to try something "purpose built" if it is available here. I intend to try waxed dental floss when I remember to buy it.

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:18 am

I just did a Google search on "Duponol" and one of the links mentions Moeck's own brand equivalent, called "Anticondens" - I'd guess you'd find that somewhere - try Saunders Recorders or The Early Music Shop or Moeck's own website? Another link suggests that the main ingredient is Sodium Lauryl Sulphate which I recall seeing as a common ingredient in many detergent based products like shampoos etc.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:49 am

Yes, Jem, that's the stuff. The nice thing about the pure drop is that it's odorless and tasteless, and a small bottle lasts a long long time.

Whistling Archer · Post by **Whistling Archer** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:18 pm

Does duponol work only on wood , or plastic metal etc?

devondancer · Post by **devondancer** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:38 pm

Thanks, everyone. Having read the ingredients for Anticondens as suggested, it appears to be washing up liquid and water, which is what I use now. I suppose the Anticondens might taste better, though! I will ask my recorder playing friend if she uses it.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:36 pm

devondancer wrote:Having read the ingredients for Anticondens as suggested, it appears to be washing up liquid and water

That's not exactly right, dev. Sodium Lauryl Sulfate is just one ingredient in washing up liquid, which also contains detergents, perfumes, and who knows what else. It's a surfactant that acts to make water sheet and run off rather than bead up and cling - which is what causes clogging problems in windways.

Houston Steve wrote:Does duponol work only on wood , or plastic metal etc?

It's probably more effective on porous surfaces like wood, where it penetrates the grain. But I find it lasts for a few playing sessions on non-porous plastic or metal windways. At least I delude myself into thinking so.

Dental floss may be more effective on those, but I haven't felt the need to try it.

devondancer · Post by **devondancer** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:33 am

Thanks again. Not sure if neat sodium lauryl sulphate is available, but I will try some of the mild soaps with no perfume.

Mine is an aluminium whistle, a Silkstone narrow bore, which I love, but it does clog if I don't treat it.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:19 am

That should do it. Just don't blame us if you start blowing bubbles!

As far as I know, Duponol/Anticondens is in fact neat - a solution of sodium lauryl sulfate salt in water. It's also available in paste form for cosmetics use.

I have a few cloggy whistles, too, and the treatments do seem to help. Good luck!

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:53 am

ERm .. guys .. Sodium Lauryl Sulfate does not have a real good rapp. Be careful - it interupts lipid function - lipids are what our cell-walls are made of. Water is a lipid. Good old soap will do the same and you can taste it so you know it's there and to spit it out. Highest concentration of Sodium Lauryl Sulfate can be found in dishwasher rinse-aid along with a bit of coloring - it's well known to wreck the head on a good beer. I'm happy to be corrected.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:29 am

Mitch wrote:it's well known to wreck the head on a good beer.

Dang, Mitch, now I'm going to have to stop soaking my treated whistles in my beer.

IDAwHOa · Post by **IDAwHOa** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:22 pm

Mitch wrote:ERm .. guys .. Sodium Lauryl Sulfate does not have a real good rapp. Be careful - it interupts lipid function - lipids are what our cell-walls are made of. Water is a lipid. Good old soap will do the same and you can taste it so you know it's there and to spit it out. Highest concentration of Sodium Lauryl Sulfate can be found in dishwasher rinse-aid along with a bit of coloring - it's well known to wreck the head on a good beer. I'm happy to be corrected.

At what concentration/exposure level does the stuff cause problems. I have read too many stories about things that were considered bad during animal testing and then found out they reacted badly because they were treated at levels gobs higher than ever expected for human contact. Poor science for sure.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:45 pm

Well, science is science. Duponol is rated low-toxic. You can compare documented toxicity data to practical applications and draw your own conclusions. I don't think I'll be ingesting 77 grams of the solid stuff, equivalent for me to one documented level of oral toxicity in rats.

I really respect Mitch's concern. The amount in liquid Duponol is small. There's probably more risk from my shampoo or toothpaste. Since treatment reduces the need to back-suck to clear the windway, there's even less chance of ingestion. I treat instruments only when necessary, and prefer not to be distracted by the taste of soap when I'm concentrating on playing. Life's too short.

Tom's Natural Toothpaste has a reasonably sane page about SLS, and there's even a link to Snopes.

Anyway, with my bad habits, it's not the Duponol that will do me in!

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:42 pm

Yep, balance in all things.

The first time I got allerted to the hazard in SLS was when my wife got suspicious of the amount of risky materials being marketed at women as part of the "beauty" industry - for instance, mercury was, until recently, a standard ingreadient in eye beautification - the Romans used it and it was popular until banned here in the 1980's - I can still obtain it if I really want to.

SLS, has a hazard - so does breathing. On the balance side - I'm happy to use whatever comes to hand as a surfactant with cloggy whistles so long as I'm not becoming a surfactant junkie (shampoos, detergents etc).

Being aware is important (as far as I'm concerned, being aware is being alive) - I'm used to making my own decisions as regards the risks I take, information helps a lot. It's a fine time we live in - information is better than ever before in history, if we care to look, and I don't mind sharing some of the stuff I've learned. Lipids are part of how mamalian life works, surfactants are not good for lipids - i supose a micro-biologist could enumerate the physics of that - for instance, what are the natural balances we have against surfactants?

Different folks have different tollerance levels to stuff; I am meeting more and more people with advanced sensitivities to the stuff we eat and breathe (allergies, gluten and lactose intollerance etc), more and more people with imune system disorders (MS/Crones/Lupus etc) and have tracked my wife's MS and my son's autism to a combination of carpet glues and heavy metals. These are regretable outcomes that would not have happened had I been aware at the time of those lifestyle decisions.

Information never hurts. All I can do is say "go look" and make your own decision. Our decisions define our lives.

Music, on the other hand, is a great healer.

Now - is there another fence I can go sit on?

Use the Duponol - just don't use it as a mixer with Jameson's