Manzanita- a suitable timber for whistle building?

shadowformz · Post by **shadowformz** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:08 am

Hi all, i'm just wondering whether or not any of you whistle smiths out there have ever made a whistle from Manzanita (Arctostaphylos tomentosa), i have recently seen this timber popping up on ebay and was tempted to try a piece. Has anyone any experience or advice with this. Thanks, Brad. timber?[http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-Manzanita-Tur ... dZViewItem]

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:11 am

Brad-- nice avatar: good to put a face to your name.

Here's part of what Wikipedia says:

Manzanita branches are popular as decoration, due to their unique shape, color, and strength when dried.

Manzanita barkThe wood is notoriously hard to cure, mostly due to cracking against the grain, giving it few uses as timber. The slow growth rate and many branchings further decrease the sizes available. Some furniture and art employ whole round branches, which reduces cracking and preserves the deep red color.
******
I think I'd pass...

WyoBadger · Post by **WyoBadger** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:05 am

We were rather fascinated by these during a recent trip to southern Utah (it doesn't grow in Wyoming as far as I know). Besides the troubles Paul mentions, it seems like it would be awfully difficult to find a piece straight enough to make a whistle.

It sure is pretty, though.
T

emtor · Post by **emtor** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:03 am

I used to make knives, and finding wood for large handles can be a pain in the neck.
No matter which piece of wood I examined I'd find cracks that made the piece unsuitable for a handle.
The trick is to laminate several smaller pieces. Drill a hole through each piece and stick a steel rod through all the holes,
then glue them together with epoxy.
Sometimes I used different kinds of wood for decoration.
Why not do the same when making whistles?
A whistle splits sort of naturally into several sections anyway:
The head
The three top fingerholes
The three bottom fingerholes
The bell end

Between each of these sections you could insert thin rings from wood having a different color than the rest.
Now it doesn't matter wether the grain of the different sections line up or not.
By doing it like this you can put scraps of wood to good use,-scraps you would otherwise just throw away.

<img src="http://vargaswhistles.com/temp/wood.jpg" border="1">

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:21 am

Seems it's been used for NAF...

http://mysite.verizon.net/res1f9cs/id13.html
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=47102
http://oregonflutestore.com/home/of1/pa ... tions.html

highwood · Post by **highwood** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:44 am

Yes I have.
The second whistle I made, a very special whistle but not for every day use.
I have more wood and am waiting until I have a more perfected design to build with it.
Manzanita (or at least the manzanita I have - there are several species) turns/machines very well and is quite beautiful. Hard to cure/dry or find unchecked pieces but seems stable if you find one.

highwood · Post by **highwood** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:53 am

Just checked out those links - I guess just filling the cracks/voids is another approach as long as they don't change - no experience with that.
I personally collected my manzanita while collecting firewood, and cut out a few 3/4 in square 6 -8 inch long turning blanks. I have been using small pieces for the fipples of my cpvc whistles - I like having some natural product in my whistle

emtor · Post by **emtor** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:03 am

so Manzanita is hard to dry?
Does this mean that it splits easily when you dry it?
You could try to seal the end-grain with wax or paint to prohibit splitting, or try this trick:
Buy virgin cold-pressed flax-oil (linseed oil), and immerse a piece of wood in it for a couple of weeks.
After a couple of days you'll notice a cloudy substance in the bottom of the jar, which is water that the oil has pushed out of the wood.
Since oil has replaced the moisture in the wood it won't split.
The linseed oil is perfect for bringing out the beauty of the wood too.
No other oil seems to do this as well as cold pressed flax-oil.
I'll even bet the wood will turn better on a lathe after being saturated with oil.

highwood · Post by **highwood** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:05 am

Guess I should try soaking in pure linseed/flax oil.
The person who told me about turning said to just find a dead and naturally dried piece and work around the cracks.
The piece that shadowformz linked to on ebay is large for manzanita it is 'brush' not a tree.

sbfluter · Post by **sbfluter** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:45 am

I don't know anything about how you cure wood to make a flute or whistle, but I often take branches from local wood for use as bird perches (when I'm out doing trail maintenance). It does crack as it dries, in a lengthwise direction. It's also rarely very straight.

I wonder if chamise burl would work as a good material for whistles? It's so beautiful with the blood red color on the inside, rather than the outside like manzanita.

susnfx · Post by **susnfx** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:10 pm

I don't know anything about making a whistle from a manzanita...I can't imagine a straight enough section to do it. We have these in southern Utah and every year when I was growing up my mom would get a branch from a manzanita in the hills around our little town and decorate it as a mini Christmas tree. It's beautiful wood!

Susan

emtor · Post by **emtor** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:16 pm

The person who told me about turning said to just find a dead and naturally dried piece

With linseed oil as a drying agent you could use freshly cut "green" wood, with no cracks or splits in it. I've taken wood that had been laying in water, (so wet that when you squeezed it, water was bubbling out), and dried it in linseed oil. Two weeks later I used the pieces for knifehandles.

shadowformz · Post by **shadowformz** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:35 am

Wow! Thanks for your wealth of knowledge everyone. Initially after reading Pauls advice a thought i'd give Manzanita timber a miss, but after seeing the gorgeous flutes made from manzanita burl that walden pointed to on ebay i'll think i'll take a risk and try and purchase some. Emtor, i'm very interested in your experience and findings on linseed/flax oil, two questions though, 1 is it expensive and 2 what glue would you recommend using on the timber after it has been treated. Also has anyone on the forum have access to, or know where i could get a small blank of Arizona Rosewood aka "desert rose" (Vauquelinia californica), i would love to swap a piece for a couple rare Aussie blanks if anyone is able n willing.

emtor · Post by **emtor** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:44 am

Linseed oil isn't more expensive than any other oil, unless you buy it at a health store.

Gluing wood treated with linseed oil is impossible due to the high contents of fatty acids. But, why use glue? Try using a hardening paint-oil instead, like boiled linseed oil. Boiled linseed oil will bond to raw linseed oil, so it could be used as a glue.

When you buy linseed oil, make sure you buy the right kind.
Boiled linseed oil is heatet and have additives that makes it harden. It can be used as a replacement for glue. Buy it in paint stores.

Raw linseed oil is cold pressed and may contain additives to prevent fungus attacks if it's produced for the paint industry.

To make sure you get linseed oil suitable for flutes/whistles, buy it at a health store. The best quality is produced in Scandinavia (Sweden), or any other country with a cold climate.
The finest quality is cold pressed and taken from the first pressing, this is called virgin oil.
The lowest quality is pressed with the aid of using heat and adding solvents.

If you use linseed oil to dry wood, you may mix the oil with turpentine to make it penetrate faster. Be aware that some stores sell turpentine which isn't really turpentine but white-spirit. Make sure you buy natural turpentine and not fake turpentine.

Be very careful with wood shavings that contain linseed oil, they may combust spontaniously. So if you turn wood on a lathe, make sure you don't leave shavings laying around the workshop.

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:16 am

I'll be happy to be proven wrong on the Manzanita. Keep us posted