HELP. . Im making a whistle

FAUN LORD THORN · Post by **FAUN LORD THORN** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:44 am

Hello.

I am making a simple whistle from a lovely piece of chrome pipe. I have taken the plastic head off a B tin whistle and placed it over my pipe. It fits perfectly. The note i get from it is pretty spot on G#.

With about 15 inches of pipe at my disposal I would love to include up to 7 holes. Ultimately, I am wishing for a scale of G# minor
( G# A# B C# D# E G G# )

I need some help in working out where to place the holes. I've visited a few calculator sites but they focus on 6 or 8 hole whistles. I need a bit of help.

The thickness is 10mm and the diameter is 110mm. The pipe is exactly 15 inches plus 1cm to the hole on the whistle head.

Any advice would make me very happy.

Impempe · Post by **Impempe** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:32 am

you probably need a couple of pipes to experiment with - trial and error. A tuner will help. Try making a hole where you think it should be, starting from the bottom hole first. gradually increase the size of the hole. if it is too big or not right, use tape to close it. Once you have your pipe more or less as you want it, then make a new one with the holes in the right place and the right size

Not sure you will find anything more than the 6 or 8 holes in calculators.

breqwas · Post by **breqwas** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:46 am

> HELP. . Im making a whistle

Aaaouuaaaa!!!! Heeelp!!!!! I' making it!!!!!! I cant stop!!!!!!!1111oneone

Impempe · Post by **Impempe** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:49 am

breqwas wrote:
Aaaouuaaaa!!!! Heeelp!!!!! I' making it!!!!!! I cant stop!!!!!!!1111oneone

me too!!

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:38 am

The thickness is 10mm and the diameter is 110mm

Do you mean 1 mm / 11 mm? Also, do you mean a Bb whistle head? And why the desire for 7 holes when 6 are sufficient to produce the harmonic minor scale listed?

Innocent Bystander · Post by **Innocent Bystander** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:11 am

Seven holes? Yer man is greedy. Or he thinks he's making a <gasp!> recorder!

Here's a site that might help.

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6611/makewhis.htm

You might want to cast an eye over Mark Shep's site too. It's about making flutes, but the principle of hole-placing is the same.

http://www.markshep.com/flute/Holes.html

Innocent Bystander · Post by **Innocent Bystander** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:15 am

Whoc!

(WHistle Obsessive Construction.)

OMG! I made another one!

Jason Paul · Post by **Jason Paul** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:09 am

Is a Bb head large enough to tonally support a whistle as deep as G#?

There's an optimal ratio of bore length to diameter, and it seems that might be pushing it. I'm not a whistle maker. However, if many makers use different sized bores for a C and a D, I would think that the difference between a Bb and a G# would be significant.

Jason

Innocent Bystander · Post by **Innocent Bystander** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:34 am

I only do PVC whistles. Yes, the bore of the tube has a bearing on what notes you can reasonably expect to get out of it. But there is a certain amount of leeway, and if you do it correctly, you can make a low G whistle out of a pipe of the bore that normally does a high D. You might have trouble covering the holes, though...

Faun Lord Thorn! You do NOT need seven holes. You are thinking like a piano-player. For a whistle, count the hole on the end of the whistle-pipe (the one that's already there. The other end is covered by the whistle-head, or fipple). That's Doh, or your tonic, and that hole is already (and always) open. One hole open on a six-hole whistle is Reh. Two open is Me. Three open is Fah, four Soh, five La and all six holes open is Te. For the octave, cover all the holes and blow harder (overblow).

Jason Paul · Post by **Jason Paul** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:07 am

I wasn't talking about the hole placement, but about actually playing the thing. I don't think a low G whistle with a diameter of a high D whistle would be playable - not because of hole placement, but because of air requirements - not more or harder breath, but just with the pressure care that would be necessary. And I'm wondering if even a Bb (or B if that's really the case) would work.

Again though, I'm not a whistle maker (though I have made an NA flute, and the same principle applies). If someone has tried this sort of thing and it works fine, then I'll freely and gladly admit that I'm wrong.

Jason

Innocent Bystander · Post by **Innocent Bystander** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:27 am

Sorry, JP, I'm not getting on your case or trying to disagree with you. You're right that extra breath care might be necessary. But in my limited experience, the size of the head doesn't make as much difference as the hole placement.

Again, You're right that extra breath care might be necessary.

Carey · Post by **Carey** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:36 am

FAUN LORD THORN wrote:I have taken the plastic head off a B tin whistle and placed it over my pipe. It fits perfectly. The note i get from it is pretty spot on G#.

It looks like FLT has blown a note with his frankentube and has demonstrated to his satisfaction that the bell note will sound. That would be the hardest note to play for a whistle that is thinner than ideal.

FLT, since you have a bell note, let's work from there. You know the overall length of the whistle now, and other dimensions of the pipe. so where to put the holes? And what holes to put? You can use a spreadsheet to figure this out pretty close, and then trial and error to get the result you want.

There are things going on in the whistle that are only approximated by the math in the various calculators, so what they serve up is likewise an approximation of the real whistle. You will have to use trial and error to zero in on what works for your specific whistle. Here's what I would do in your situation. Feel free to adjust as needed:

1) Get a spreadsheet from Daniel Bingamon at http://www.tinwhistles.us/jubilee/pagesmith/7

2) Enter in your pipe dimensions and the frequency you would like each hole to sound.

3) Look at the predicted overall length from bell end to the edge of the ramp. If this isn't pretty darn close, you'll have to adjust "things" in the spreadsheet until it is. Check the dimensions of the window, and the pipe dimensions. A ruler might not be good enough. Callipers are better.

4) See if you think you can finger the resulting hole pattern. You might want to put some tape on the pipe and pencil in the finger holes and see if you like holding the result. If not, you can monkey with the hole sizes until the holes fall into a playable position. Watch the cut-off plot tho, or you'll end up with some notes that don't sound like they go with the rest.

5) Once you have the theoretical layout, drill undersize holes, maybe even small holes, so you can be sure it plays every note flat, except the bell note.

6) Slowly enlarge the holes until everything is in tune. I suggest a file or some similar slow process to avoid going too far too fast and ending up with a hole that is too large.

Be sure to enlarge the holes together, because the down-wind holes have an effect on the note you are playing. That's why cross-fingerings work like they do. But you will have to enlarge the flatter ones more than the less flat ones of course.

If you get a hole too big, you can put tape over part of it for temporary and then consider filling in the hole with some epoxy putty in the long run. But it's way better to not get too big in the first place.

Good luck. May the force be with you.

Feadoggie · Post by **Feadoggie** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:47 am

Carey wrote:If this isn't pretty darn close, you'll have to adjust "things" in the spreadsheet until it is.

Carey, I love the way you said that.

Feadoggie

Carey · Post by **Carey** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:38 pm

Ha, yeah. That's my technical way of saying if the model doesn't match reality ya gotta change the model or reality, and I vote for changing the model.

FAUN LORD THORN · Post by **FAUN LORD THORN** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:25 pm

thank you all for your advice and commentary. you guys are so quick to reply! its great.

The bell note on the first octave is pushing it i must say. It takes careful breath not to overblow it and jump into the next octave. I am used to playing cheap tin whistles and don't know anything on expensive models. I love the way I can climb up to 4 octaves quite easily with this pipe and its dimensions.

Thank you Carey, I will follow your good spirited advice.

On the 7 key hole idea... well, since it is such a long pipe, the space between the notes would be longer than normal.. i think. I was wondering whether i could find some other note that i could throw in... um. on second thoughts i think not.. but i have seen the 'soprano D-Plus' on www.silkstone-whistles.com/
which got me thinking.

Anyway. Im going to start my blueprints. Wish me luck.

- Faun-Lord Thorn

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HELP. . Im making a whistle

HELP. . Im making a whistle

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