David of the White Rock

[Pammy]

Does anyone have the music by any chance (for a whistle of course wise guys)

[jemtheflute]

I'm sure you'd have no trouble finding a harp arrangement!

Here you go, Dafydd y Garreg Wen (pron. "Davyth uh Garrrrreg Wen" - underscore = emphasised syllable) in a flute/whistle friendly setting, though of course you can transpose it to any key you like.



T:Dafydd y Garreg Wen
T:(David of the White Rock)
M:3/4
L:1/8
Q:80
C:Traditional Welsh
R:Air
Z:Jem Hammond 23:7:2007
K:B Minor
Bf ed cB | B2 ^A2 B2 | F^A ce dc | d4 c2 | B2 b2 a2 | g2 fe f2 | d2 fedc | d6 ||!
d2 fd ad | e2 dc B^A | Bc dB ed | d2 c4 | Bd f^a bg | fe dc d2 | c>d B2 ^A2 | B6 |]

You should be able to cross-finger the A#s satisfactorily on most D whistles - for the lower octave try each of xox xoo, xox xox, xox xxo and xox xxx to see which is best in tune on your whistle (xox xxo is the commonest best) and for the second 8ve it will likely be xox ooo, though on some whistles xox xoo or xox oxo may be better.

Note this is a slow song tune, never a waltz, and that the parts do not repeat. You can probably find the words online somewhere, both Welsh and English translation, I daresay, though I believe (haven't checked) that the air is older than the words which are one of those sentimental Victorian type additions of lyrics - a bit like the Derry Air + "Danny Boy". In fact, you could make a case that this tune/song is one of two candidates for being the Welsh equivalent to Danny Boy, the other being, of course, Myfanwy.

Oh yeah, afterthought - I haven't put any phrase markings in the notation in line with standard folk usage - that doesn't mean it should be played with every note articulated separately! It should be obvious that this is to be played expressively and substantially legato, but it's up to you and the sense you make of it what notes to link and where to breathe.

[jiminos]

i know i'm hijacking... but i'll give it right back, i promise....

jem, you seem to be fairly well steeped in music history... maybe you can shed a bit of light on something a friend told me.... my friend (an Irish musician from Co Derry, can't remember which little town at the moment) once told me during a break at a gig that he always got a great chuckle when people asked for the "ultimate" Irish song, Danny Boy. the reason he found it humorous was (according to him) ... it was written in France by an Englishman about a man from Wales... then he chuckled and said the only thing Irish about it was the melody, which came from Londonderry Air.... have you heard anything like that before?

thanks and ....

be well,

jim

[Ceili_whistle_man]

jiminos,
There are loads of theories on 'Danny boy', after a quick search here are a few sites that try to explain the origins of the tune, as well as giving the author of the lyrics to the tune (Frederick E Weatherly) 'The Londonderry Air' which has been known ever since as the song 'Danny boy' .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A3826136

http://www.standingstones.com/dannyboy.html

http://www.standingstones.com/danny3.html

[urlhttp://www.associatedcontent.com/article/20581 ... assic.html[/url]

Cheers.

[jemtheflute]

@Jiminos - I'm a mere magpie-brain! However, sometime in the last 18 months I recall reading a fairly lengthy and detailed and on-the-face-of-it definitive survey/academic paper on the whole Londonderry Air/Danny Boy thing that someone else flagged up/linked in (I think) a previous discussion of it on C&F somewhere...... I don't recall where or who and I haven't time right now to go searching, but if you use the Search facility you should come up with it - or I bet either MTGuru or Denny will find it in no time (sorry for dumping, guys!)

As I said above, I'm not 100% sure I'm right about DyGW's provenance or relationship to its lyrics and haven't time to research that either... but I'm usually not far off when I half-remember stuff from my magpie-collection: if it's in there at all it's normally at least on the right track, if not correct in all details, though there are times......

[benhall.1]

So. Let's summarise. The lyrics to 'Danny Boy' were not written in France and were not about a man from Wales. They were written by an English lawyer, but have always - including by the author - been taken to be about Ireland and the Irish in some way. The air ... right, well, for a start PLEASE don't call it the "Londonderry Air". If you do this in parts of Ireland, you won't be visiting anywhere else. Is it Irish? Absolutely for certain. Did it originate in an older Scottish air? Maybe.

There you go. Sorry for the lack of academic BS.

[MTGuru]

or I bet either MTGuru or Denny will find it in no time (sorry for dumping, guys!)

Seems to me it was Peter who posted the link, but I can't find it now.

[jemtheflute]

Seems to me it was Peter who posted the link, but I can't find it now.

Yeah, now you mention it, that sounds familiar. I'm pretty sure it was Peter.

OK, I've had time now to do a quick Google on DyGW. Wikipedia has an excellent overview, beyond which I haven't gone. (I wasn't far off, either .) There are several YouTube videos of it being sung, I notice, including this rather nice one of a setting by Haydn!....... There are probably some folkier ones out there somewhere. Google away!

[jiminos]

thank you all for the responses. i was hesitant to ask... and to an extent, i do now regret having asked. i knew somebody would be bothered by the mere mentioning of what my friend had told me. like i said, i was just relating something i was told by a friend born and raised near 'Derry. sorry to have ruffled your feathers, benhall. i'll pass on to oliver that he should not repeat his story when he is home visiting family. as for me, i was merely curious. myself, i've never been to Ireland, and it's not likely i'll ever be able to afford such a trip. around here, a trip to seattle is a big deal.


again, thanks all.

be well,

jim

[jemtheflute]

Re: (London)Derry Air/Danny Boy - Found it! Here's the old thread I had in mind. Peter Laban's post with the relevant link is the 4th post, and there's other good stuff.

Jim, I don't think Ben's personal feathers were ruffled.....and he's right about the division over the naming of that Ulster city.... it all depends on which side of the sectarian divide you want to plump, and if you'd rather stay above all that, which usage should you adopt? Trouble is, for better or worse, the tune is with long standing best known internationally as The Londonderry Air. That that form of the city's name is seen as an Anglo-imperialist imposition and that anti- or non-imperialists from wherever as well as Irish Nationalists prefer plain "Derry", including in the title of the Air, is perhaps a latter-day issue, but a real one. Neutrals in or those ignorant of the historical/political/sectarian divide will probably stick with the most-disseminated/familiar title without any partiality being implied.

All that sorted (!), can we get back to Dafydd? What's happened to the OP?

[Pammy]

Thankyou Jemtheflute

That means I've learnt A sharp too now

I adore that song. I just went onto a website to get the words and they had the words for the Ash Grove

Do you have the music for that by any chance
PK

[DrPhill]

Do you have the music for that by any chance
PK

Try this useful site: http://www.folktunefinder.com/

It has several versions of the ash grove (to a cursory glance).

Hope that helps.

Edited: I can be more helpful than that I guess:
X: 5
T: The Ash Grove
O: Wales
R: waltz
M: 3/4
K: G
D2|:"G"G2 B2 dc|"Em"B2 G2 G2|"Am"AB cB AG|"D7"F2 D2 D2|
"G"GA BA GF|"C"E2 C2 E2|"G"D2 G2"D" F2|1"G"G4 D2:|2"G"G4 Bc||
"G"d2 Bc de|"G"d2 c2 B2|"Am"c2 AB cd|"D7"c2 B2 A2|
"G"B2 GA Bc|"Em"B2 A2 G2|"D"F2 d2 "A7"^c2|"D7"d4 D2|!
"G"G2 B2 dc|"Em"B2 G2 G2|"Am"AB cB AG|"D7"F2 D2 D2|
"G"GA BA GF|"C"E2 C2 E2|"G"D2 G2 "D7"F2|"G"G4|]

[benhall.1]

Do you know, jiminos, it isn't 'Derry either. That apostrophe implies that the "London" part of the name has been removed. In fact, it's the other way round. The "London" part was added during a particularly resonant period in Irish/English history and is provocative to some. It doesn't bother me. But it does bother some of my Irish friends.

There's a suggestion that the air was written by Rory Dall O'Cahan, a harper who lived from the late 16c to about 1650. in other words, round about the time that the city of Derry was being renamed by the British. Sorry, by the English.

As for "for better or worse" we're stuck with something, Jem, I myself tried that in my ignorance a little while back. I still find it hard not to think of 'these islands' as "The British Isles". But I wouldn't want to use that term too much around people who are interested in Irish music. Not now I've been put straight on it ...

[jiminos]

ben, no i didn't know. i'm of canadian descent, living in the U.S. what i know about ireland, england, wales, the east coast of the U.S. france, spain, etc can be fit in a very small thimble and it would still leave room left over for the entire contents of the latest edition of the Webster's Unabridged Dictionary. as for 'Derry, Derry or Londonderry... i've seen it written that way before. not being Irish, i had no idea that it might be wrong or offensive to anybody.

i said before that it appeared i had ruffled your feathers... jem said no... still it appears even more so that i have. i said i was sorry before. i will apologize again.

BENHALL, IF I, IN MY IGNORANCE, HAVE IN ANY WAY OFFENDED YOU, I OFFER MY SINCEREST APOLOGIES. IT WAS NEVER MY INTENT, AND IT WAS CERTAINLY NEVER A PERSONAL THING.

I APOLOGIZE TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER FOR HIJACKING THE THREAD WITH AN UNRELATED QUESTION.

I APOLOGIZE TO JEM FOR DRAGGING HIM INTO THIS.

I APOLOGIZE TO ANYBODY ELSE I MAY HAVE INADVERTENTLY OFFENDED, EVEN ONLY BY MY MERE EXISTENCE!

it started just asking a question. and the result illustrates why i hate asking questions on forums. no matter how innocent my intent, somebody will find a way to be offended. then i feel obligated to apologize for an offense i didn't even know had occurred. and on it goes.... so... i have apologized. i am done posting to this thread.

indeed, lurking is safer.

be well, all,

(a reasonably chastised) jim (who promises never to mention Derry or Londonderry ever again. )

[Ceili_whistle_man]

In the name o' Jayzus jiminos, stop with the self flagellation!!
Lighten up. You asked a question, you got answers. There is no reason to go off and lurk and not contribute to the boards. Where benhall.1 warns of not refering to the song as 'The Londonderry air', he is only pointing out that in parts of Ireland some folk are very touchy on the whole Derry/Londonderry debate. I come from Northern Ireland, (and I am refering to the British named part of Ireland, I am not refering to it geographically) wrongly called Ulster by many. I couldn't care less which way people refer to the place Derry/Londonderry, but in the case of the air, you are not wrong in refering to it as the 'Londonderry air' because that's what it has been known as for all these years. People are not showing a lack of sensitivity to the Anglo-imperialist/anti-imperialist stance by refering to it's internationally recognised name of 'The Londonderry air'.