Reliance banjo question.

[Ceili_whistle_man]

I have an old (made somewhere around 1910-20) Reliance tenor banjo, 18 frets, it has the original velum head (although split, it is still playable) with the makers oval ink stamp 'Reliance London' on it.
It has a quite high-set action. The reason for this is that there is no turnbuckle inside the body of the banjo, only a solid wooden crossmember that has no adjustment capabilities. I tried packing a piece of shaped plastic in between the end of the neck and the rim of the banjo to hold the neck more perpindicular to the head. This makes things a little better but what I would like to know is does anyone know if there are any off the shelf turnbuckle systems available that could be modified to suit my banjo?
I have just been in touch with a local engineering firm and have commissioned them to make a custom turnbuckle for me. I am not going to fit it until I am absolutely sure that it is the way to go, but I will get it made in the mean time while I search (in vain) for something that is ready made.
I shall post a couple of pic's later.

[Ceili_whistle_man]

Here's the banjo, the skin is split to the right hand side from the fret next to the neck round to about the four o'clock position:


This is the tail nut, all it does is hold the cross member in place;


I am not sure exactly what this is supposed to do, any suggestions? I have tightened the screws and loosened the screws, there is no noticable change to the way it plays. (?)


Here is a view of the stamp on the skin in behind the truss rod;


Here are the tuning pegs, they are unusual in that they have to be tightened up with a screw driver or a spanner just enough to allow the banjo to be tuned and then nipped up tight to stop them from slipping out of tune. Would there have been a custom tool supplied originally?


Front view;


Here's the truss rod, it is permanently fixed (glued tenon) to the neck through a slot in the pot and is held in place at the tail with a tapered screw;

[s1m0n]

On my vintage tb, of the same era and neck set up, a previous owner had a local luthier (whom I bought it from, later) make him a wedge-shaped shim to fit between the end of the neck and the pot, to resolve exactly this issue. The shim is maple, the same as the neck, and it's a little less than a quarter inch thick at the wide end (the top) tapering to nothing over the thickness of the neck. One of these decades, someone is going to have to make a thicker one, but it's been fine for years, so far.

[Tim Hall]

Is the neck straight, or has the tension of the strings pulled it forward? In an instrument this old, it may not have been built for the increased tension of steel versus nylon (gut) strings. It appears from your pictures that someone has sunk two screws into the neck-pot joint. The dowel stick brace at the neck join is meant to hold the neck tightly to the pot, but apparently is not doing the job, hence the reinforcing screws (the reason your adjustments to the brace had no effect). Some people move the dowel attachment point at the tail forward to pivot the neck back and correct the angle, but that involves relocating the hole in the pot and may interfere with the tailpiece. I just a few weeks ago saw a banjo on Ebay with an extra piece of wood attached to the end of the dowel stick so the original stick could be moved forward in the pot, achieving the same pivot without redrilling the pot. I've also seen banjos with various kinds of metal "reinforcements" to try to stop the inexorable creep of a neck under more tension than it was meant to carry. There are several references and tutorials, of a sort, about neck resets for banjos with dowel sticks around the net. I would try, just off the top of my head, frets.com and mimf.com first, and I would try to find an open back banjo builder near you if possible to look at the instrument and do a proper neck angle reset. This isn't really a DIY job, in my opinion. Many builders of open back banjos for old time and clawhammer music still use the dowel stick instead of the modern coordinator rods.

[Ceili_whistle_man]

Thanks for the help so far folks, I shall give you a bit more detail.
The neck on the banjo is straight enough, it has a slight twist in it, about 1 – 2mm over the length of the neck, but not enough to make any of the strings buzz.
The central rod was loose when I first got the banjo, I easily removed it by gently wiggling it, the original glue had given up its grip a long time ago. I cleaned out the residue and reglued it in place with a couple of shims placed in the upper part of the neck socket nearest the neck to try to bring the neck back and away from the body of the banjo. This worked to the extent that the strings now sit 7mm above the frets at the point where the neck meets the pot, it’s still too high.
I don’t think the banjo was meant to have nylon or gut strings fitted, the holes in the tuning pegs are too small for nylon strings to pass through, the steel strings only just fit.
The strings on the banjo were the original strings according to the first owner. The banjo had been sitting in his mother’s garage unplayed for as long as he could remember. He didn’t know where it came from, no one in his family played it.
The strings as they stood were too dull and tarnished, I had them replaced individually (no pre-packed strings) and had the matched as closely to the originals as I could get.
The two screws in the neck-pot joint are flat ended, they don’t penetrate the frame, they just butt up against it. I think this may be to stop any lateral or vertical movement of the neck at the point where it passes through the pot. (?)
The banjo also is not an ‘open back’; it has a wooden resonator that I have removed to allow access to the inside of the banjo. You can see the bracket for the locating screw of the resonator on the cross piece in my bottom pic’ I posted.
Unfortunately I don’t have the luxury of being anywhere near a house builder never mind a banjo builder. I had to travel four hours to find a luthier to help me with the string sizes/tension etc.
Thanks for the insights and I shall try the links later.

[Thomaston]

www.banjohangout.org has a section specifically for building,setup, and repair that you may find of assistance also.

[s1m0n]

I don’t think the banjo was meant to have nylon or gut strings fitted, the holes in the tuning pegs are too small for nylon strings to pass through, the steel strings only just fit.

Very likely. Vintage tenor banjos, like all other banjos of that era and most banjos in general, were usually designed to have much lighter and thinner steel strings, tuned higher and at much lower tension. Most 'irish' players restring the original cgda to GDAE a fourth lower, and then use thicker, tenser strings to facilitate playing melody on what was designed to be a chord instrument.

[millsnichol19]

I recently purchased a British made Reliance Mandolin Banjo, it is stamped with a gold lion H.G & S trade mark and model 8S . Can you please tell me the approximate age of the instrument and value?


Kind regards,

Nichol

[Ceili_whistle_man]

Hi Nichol,
Is it anything like this?; http://www.pamelasmusic.co.uk/images/Fo ... /Bm034.htm
Here's a link to some information on the Reliance brand, scroll down to 'Houghton'; http://www.whitetreeaz.com/vintage/brit2.htm
I think the value of the instrument is what you are willing to pay for it, as for it's market value, I have no idea.