so what do you folks think...here 'tis...
folks around here seem to think Celtic Music is in the blood, and if you ain't got the blood, there's no way your gonna be able to play or sing Celtic without the Celtic soul...comments?
I've heard this one over and over...
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AnnaDMartinez
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AnnaDMartinez
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I think it's because around here, there are no session musicians, and though a few have tried, they don't seem to get it! One guy came in from Rapid City and was playing "The Star of County Down" is some impossible key nobody ever heard of with a capo slapped on the fourth fret, while I'm smugly sitting there holding forth in the key of G! This guy was also lamenting the lack of a flute Boehm flute player, and when I piped up something about having a whistle player, I got a dirty look, and was not being exceptionally obnoxious!
I don't think so--- just ask my German, Armenian, Ukranian, Polish, French-Canadien, friends if not being "in the blood" interferes in playing Celtic music. You'll have enough bodies to start a -----
This is a pile of fecal matter.
Mark
This is a pile of fecal matter.
Mark
Everybody has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.
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WyoBadger
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Anna--
Yep, that's certifiable ballony! The best classical pianist I've ever know was Japanese. But only Austrians can play Mozart, right?
I think there is a genetic element to music--most lovers of highland pipes that I know are at least partly scottish, for example. But I also love West African drumming, and I'm about as white as they come. If you love the music, you love the music; I believe that's why they call it the "International Language."
Hey, Brian Lee, are you out there? I believe you might have a thing or two to say about this issue... (:
Tom
Yep, that's certifiable ballony! The best classical pianist I've ever know was Japanese. But only Austrians can play Mozart, right?
I think there is a genetic element to music--most lovers of highland pipes that I know are at least partly scottish, for example. But I also love West African drumming, and I'm about as white as they come. If you love the music, you love the music; I believe that's why they call it the "International Language."
Hey, Brian Lee, are you out there? I believe you might have a thing or two to say about this issue... (:
Tom
Andy IrvineOn 2001-08-28 14:12, Mark_J wrote:
O.K., I have three names for you.
Tony DeMarco
Patrick Ourceau
Myron Bretholz
I have heard the same thing about American old time music except that the ethnic makeup of musicians is too diverse to support the "blood" theory so it becomes "all in the early environment and upbringing". Lots of people will support any theory that makes them part of an ingroup.
What StevieJ said.
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LeeMarsh
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Its not congenital, its contagious.
The greater the exposure to the more likely you are to catch it. There may be some genetic risk factors that lower your immunity; but, by and large it nurture and not nature the builds a heart ripe for Celtic music.
One might suppose that the early exposure of toddlers hearing, jigs, reels, airs, and the occasional hornpipe might have an effect on the inner ear development. Maybe Dr. Dale, our great undisputed whistle journalist, could relate an applicable child development study that links teachable moments, physiological inner ear development, and the frequency of cuts, rolls, and slides on the proper maturation and saturation of the celtic heart. I spent 10 years in Child Welfare, I don't remember seeing one of those studies, but Dales the Doc.
Short of a viable reference from Doc Dale, I'd go with Celtic Heart being socially induced and not inherited.
On the Other hand...
I do think that every human being has a genetic predisposition to evolve into an irish music lover and would full support a human rights movement to assure that all of us have an equal opportunity to pursue that destiny.
Why else would I end each post with ...
_________________
Enjoy Your Music,<br><br><b>Lee Marsh</b><br>
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LeeMarsh on 2001-08-28 15:13 ]</font>
The greater the exposure to the more likely you are to catch it. There may be some genetic risk factors that lower your immunity; but, by and large it nurture and not nature the builds a heart ripe for Celtic music.
One might suppose that the early exposure of toddlers hearing, jigs, reels, airs, and the occasional hornpipe might have an effect on the inner ear development. Maybe Dr. Dale, our great undisputed whistle journalist, could relate an applicable child development study that links teachable moments, physiological inner ear development, and the frequency of cuts, rolls, and slides on the proper maturation and saturation of the celtic heart. I spent 10 years in Child Welfare, I don't remember seeing one of those studies, but Dales the Doc.
Short of a viable reference from Doc Dale, I'd go with Celtic Heart being socially induced and not inherited.
On the Other hand...
I do think that every human being has a genetic predisposition to evolve into an irish music lover and would full support a human rights movement to assure that all of us have an equal opportunity to pursue that destiny.
Why else would I end each post with ...
_________________
Enjoy Your Music,<br><br><b>Lee Marsh</b><br><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LeeMarsh on 2001-08-28 15:13 ]</font>
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AnnaDMartinez
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Mike, that great, if you sing it in that key. One of the problems in this area,a s I see it, is that there are so many original songwriters here in the Black Hills because these folks never learned how to play with anyone else. One of my goals with the whistle is to be able to go to any session in the world and sit down and play music with folks I don't know. A "jam" session here is characterized by everybody trying to play over everybody else at the same time, I remember some of those old fashioned bluegrass jam sessions where the greats would stand aside to let a kid shine...and a song could go on for hours to give everyone a turn. There isn't much mentoring here, nor is there much advocacy here in SD for artists, which is sorely needed. This is a devout anti-union state, and God help the locals, no matter how talented! Part of what gets me is most is that the few venues here charge a cover to get in to play the music and entertain their customers. Grrr!
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Otter
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Anna,
Not a drop of irish blood in me!!! In fact I am supposed to love Jerry Lewis like all other french people. (yeah right!!!)
Where are all these narrow-minded ideas coming from anyway. I think they are pretty funny.
Passion for a certain kind of music does not come from your blood but from your soul. And Like Lee said, it is also contagious...which is why we definitely need to have a great big whistle convention in Deadwood. And it will be held outdoors with no cover.
The whole town will want to play irish music after that.
Just give us a date and we are all showing up.
S.
Not a drop of irish blood in me!!! In fact I am supposed to love Jerry Lewis like all other french people. (yeah right!!!)
Where are all these narrow-minded ideas coming from anyway. I think they are pretty funny.
Passion for a certain kind of music does not come from your blood but from your soul. And Like Lee said, it is also contagious...which is why we definitely need to have a great big whistle convention in Deadwood. And it will be held outdoors with no cover.
The whole town will want to play irish music after that.
Just give us a date and we are all showing up.
S.
Eagles may fly but otters never get sucked into jet engines.
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garycrosby
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I must vehemently state that this is nonsense.
I suppose it comes down to the larger, more philosophical concept of determinism - the theory states that my personality is largely determined by genetics, my upbringing, or my current environment. In determinism, I can try to change my personaility but my ability to due so is limited by the factors that determine my personaility in the first place. For example, if I were a red-haired Scot I might say that I anger quickly because I am a red-haired Scot and it is "well-known that all red-haired Scots anger quickly". I can try to control my anger but I will never be completely successful because anger is part of "who I am" as a red-haired Scot. Of course this is pure nonsense because being a red-haired Scot has nothing to do with anger. Stephen R. Covey debunks deterministic theory in some of his works. To paraphrase and simplify he states that genetics, our upbringing , or are current environment may influence our personality but that we determine it through our actions. IMO determinism is a philosophy which limits the possibilities of the human soul because it makes us victims of circumstances, it provides an excuse for us to judge others based upon preconceived (and often false) notions, and it removes from us the hope that we can become better than what we are.
So, back to the question at hand. I do not believe that a person has to have "Celtic blood" to play Celtic music. It may be easier for a person who was raised in an environment surrounded by Celtic music to play Celtic music because they would have learned as a child (perhaps without even realizing it). But, that does not preclude me (born in England and now living on the Canadian prairies)from making the choice to learn and excel at playing Celtic music if I choose to do so and I take what actions are required to do so.
I suppose it comes down to the larger, more philosophical concept of determinism - the theory states that my personality is largely determined by genetics, my upbringing, or my current environment. In determinism, I can try to change my personaility but my ability to due so is limited by the factors that determine my personaility in the first place. For example, if I were a red-haired Scot I might say that I anger quickly because I am a red-haired Scot and it is "well-known that all red-haired Scots anger quickly". I can try to control my anger but I will never be completely successful because anger is part of "who I am" as a red-haired Scot. Of course this is pure nonsense because being a red-haired Scot has nothing to do with anger. Stephen R. Covey debunks deterministic theory in some of his works. To paraphrase and simplify he states that genetics, our upbringing , or are current environment may influence our personality but that we determine it through our actions. IMO determinism is a philosophy which limits the possibilities of the human soul because it makes us victims of circumstances, it provides an excuse for us to judge others based upon preconceived (and often false) notions, and it removes from us the hope that we can become better than what we are.
So, back to the question at hand. I do not believe that a person has to have "Celtic blood" to play Celtic music. It may be easier for a person who was raised in an environment surrounded by Celtic music to play Celtic music because they would have learned as a child (perhaps without even realizing it). But, that does not preclude me (born in England and now living on the Canadian prairies)from making the choice to learn and excel at playing Celtic music if I choose to do so and I take what actions are required to do so.
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Brian Lee
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On 2001-08-28 14:30, WyoBadger wrote:
Hey, Brian Lee, are you out there? I believe you might have a thing or two to say about this issue... (:
Tom
Hi Anna, Hi Tom!
Well, as Mack, Tom and Ron can all attest..I'm so NOT Irish it's sickening! LOL BUT, as my good friend Joe says: "I'm Irish in training!"
Being born in Newark NJ of a caucasian father, and an Italian/hispanic mother, I look more 'ethnic' than most here I'd gather.
BUT, just because I've got darker skin, doesn't mean I'm not as gung-ho crazy celt-o-phile as the most green blooded Irishman!
It really IS in the music, and the heart of the player! I'm sure there are just as many Irishmen who can't play a note of 'their' music, as there are Americans who will never pluck a single string to a country western song!
Again, as Lee says...
ENJOY YOUR MUSIC!!
B~
