Kaval Intonation

[disorijentekspres]

After playing Bulgarian, Macedonian and Turkish kaval by myself for many years, I have started playing kaval in a Balkan folk music ensemble that includes accordion, clarinet, mandolin, guitar, oud and baglama (although not all at the same time, of course) ...

Since then, I've been struggling with the intonation of all three of my kavals. At worst, I can be around a quarter-tone flat of concert pitch, which definitely sours the song! The three-piece Bulgarian kaval in D and the one-piece Macedonian kaval in C are the worst; the cheapo Turkish kaval that I bought from Lark in the Morning is only ever-so-slightly flat.

Does anyone else have this problem?

I've found three ways to sharpen the pitch ... One, by angling the kaval even more sharply, drawing the foot end closer to my shoulder, but this makes it very hard to play and is physically uncomfortable ... two, by blowing much harder and increasing the air flow across the rim, but this turns a beautiful, soulful instrument into a single-voiced steam whistle ... and three, by pulling the kaval away from my mouth and allowing my lips to only just barely make contact with the rim ... but this makes playing the kaba register more difficult.

Other shifts in embouchure really haven't made much of a difference.

Any thoughts?

[MichaelLoos]

Try posting your question here:
http://tribes.tribe.net/kavals
This is run by Aleksandr Iliev Eppler and is AFAIK the only forum devoted solely to the kaval.
I've had a similar problem with a kaval playing inbetween C and C# (it was supposed to be a C kaval). The answer was a new kaval. It does seem strange, however, that three different instruments are all flat, and leads to the suspicion there might be something wrong with your embouchure. I myself was in the very lucky position of having a brilliant teacher, therefore mistakes were eliminated from the very start.

[O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago]

Who made your kaval, none of that ebay stuff promising to be professional is ever in tune. I'd suggest trying to find a local player to try them out, and check your embouchure. There is a sweet spot on every kaval, but beginners either play too flat or too sharp, and the harmonics will be way off. If you are able to get a good sounding kaba range, then you are probalby in the right ballpark for the embouchure placement. Odds are you just need a good instrument, and a teacher to help out. I've got one for sale, and I have some phone numbers for good makers and teachers if you need.

[disorijentekspres]

Yeah, it's a mystery. The Bulgarian kaval was indeed an eBay purchase and, as such, is the shadiest of the three ... BUT, during a lesson with Temelko Ivanov in Plovdiv, I brought this up with him, and he snatched up my kaval, played it, and judged that it sounded the same as most of his D kavals. He was actually surprised that it was as good as it is, given it's origin ... and I'll have to admit, it's a lot better quality than the el-crappo kavals that are sold in tourist gift shops all over Bulgaria. Weird.

The good, er, GREAT news is ... I am buying a new kaval, an Orfei, from Veselin Hasabaliev in Haskovo, Bulgaria; I hope to have it by the end of the month or thereabouts. You can check out his work at http://kavalibg.com/en_index.html

The Macedonian kaval is more of a mystery. This is a beautifully crafted, carved and etched ash kaval, lighter than air, given to me as a gift by one of Dragan Dautovski's students, a kaval that he himself played when studying and performing with Prof. Dautovski. This is not a cheap or clumsily produced instrument ... but it sure sounds like it in my hands sometimes, ha haaaa. I wish there was a way to attach jpegs to these posts; I'd love to show y'all this beautiful, beautiful piece.

I am well acquainted with Bai Eppler from other discussion boards (Tribe.net, actually), but thanks for bringing up his name, nonetheless. I have brought this subject up with him in the past, and his advice was pretty much, 'Hmmm, I think you need a new kaval!' ... As a matter of fact, it was Sasho's advice that compelled me to finally take the plunge and buy one of Bai Hasabaliev's kavals.

Kaba has only come to me in the past few months, after years and years of playing. For me, it requires a subtle but significant shift in embouchure ... but I've heard that different people achieve it differently.

Michael, were you ever able to get any consistent intonation out of that C kaval? Was the quarter-tone bust uniform through all the registers? I wonder if you could very carefully experiment with shortening its length and trying to at least nail it down as a C# kaval.

That's the other frustrating thing about my eBay Bulgarian kaval ... the discrepancy in pitch is worst in the bottom half of the second register but is almost true to concert pitch as it nears A and Bb. So, is that the fault of my embouchure or the construction of the kaval?

[MichaelLoos]

Michael, were you ever able to get any consistent intonation out of that C kaval? Was the quarter-tone bust uniform through all the registers? I wonder if you could very carefully experiment with shortening its length and trying to at least nail it down as a C# kaval.

That's the other frustrating thing about my eBay Bulgarian kaval ... the discrepancy in pitch is worst in the bottom half of the second register but is almost true to concert pitch as it nears A and Bb. So, is that the fault of my embouchure or the construction of the kaval?

This kaval in question was perfectly true in itself, but sharp overall. I returned it to the maker. Unfortunately, the replacement I got was 20 cents flat of C...
There's not much chance to shorten a kaval without totally destroying its outer appearance - you can cut off a millimeter or two at the end and at the two joints, that's basically it, but this won't bring it up anything near a quartertone. You cannot do anything in the fingered part so even if you decide to sacrifice the rings above the joints and shorten these by 5 or 6 mm each you will get a sharper instrument but the scale will certainly be out of tune (unless you to plug all the fingerholes and re-bore them).
I cannot tell you if it is your embouchure or the construction of the instrument that's responsible for the discrepancy in tuning but I do think that, if something were really wrong with the instrument, Temelko would have told you. If there is an accomplished player anywhere not too far from you you should go and see him. You cannot expect a great instrument from the eBay shops but some of them are quite okay (I suppose it's too late to return it?).

[disorijentekspres]

If there is an accomplished player anywhere not too far from you you should go and see him.
I'm not sure there are any other kaval players within 100 miles of where I live in Richmond, VA ... accomplished or otherwise! I have recently been introduced to a young Bulgarian guy in Chesapeake, VA, maybe a 90 minute drive from Richmond, but he's just learning, taking lessons from teachers in Bulgaria via Skype. There are other kavaldziji two hours north in Washington DC and two to three hours south in the Raleigh / Research Triangle area, but none else around here.

You cannot expect a great instrument from the eBay shops but some of them are quite okay (I suppose it's too late to return it?).
No, I've had this one for almost eight years!

Thanks for your posts, everybody.

[disorijentekspres]

UPDATE: Finally received my new Hasabaliev kaval ... perfect in every way, with NO intonation problems at all. A little heavier than other Bulgarian style kavals I've played before, but with a beautiful, smooth, stable tone and ever-so-slightly scooped depressions on the fingerholes, like the fingerholes on my gaida chanter ... the ends slide in and out of the joints smoother than I would have thought possiblle, and it has very pretty inlay work, too. This kaval will go into the crematorium with me ...

[MichaelLoos]

Which model did you get, and is it made from almond wood or rosewood?