Kitty Lie Over / The Frost is All Over

[chris_coreline]

So the version on the Planxty Collection CD... the one where he sings the middle tune of a set of three:

The Hare In The Corn
The Frost Is All Over
The Gander In The Pratie Hole

annneeyyway:

its not the version which is on the session dot org (unless i am suffering from acute sight reading failure) - the session says that the tune form this CD is under 'Kitty Lie Over' but theres no tune matching that in the database...

can anyone link me to the right tune - its stuck in my head, but its stuck in my head with the wrong B section and i need to see the dots before i learn it wrong...

...this is a folk emergencey!

[MTGuru]

this is a folk emergencey!

Good thing it's not, say, a plumbing emergency. You wouldn't want me anywhere near your plumbing.

The version you're looking for is the one listed on The Session as The Kilfenora:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/948

And here's another, listed as "Young Tim Murphy":
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/4322

It's also given in the Comments section of the "other" FIAO as "Version as played by Mick O'Brien" by uilleannpipes:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/448

Finally, here's the Norbeck setting, which is closest to the Planxty recording:

X:202
T:Frost is all over, The
R:jig
H:See also #46
H:Other tunes by the same name: #67, #206, #263
D:Planxty
Zhn-jig-202
M:6/8
K:D
AFD DFA|ded B2A|ABA F2D|GFG EFG|
AFD DFA|ded B2A|ABA F2E|1 FDD D3:|2 FDD D2e||
|:fdd ede|fdd d2e|~f3 def|~g3 e2g|
fed B2d|A2d F2G|ABA F2E|1 FDD D2e:|2 FDD D3||
"variations"
AFD DFA|Add B2A|ABA ~F3|GFG ~E3|
AFD DFA|Add B2A|ABA F2E|1 EDD D3:|2 EDD D2e||
|:fdd ede|~f3 d2e|fef def|gfg efg|
fed B2A|AdF G2A|ABA F2E|1 EDD D2e:|2 EDD D3||

[chris_coreline]

this is a folk emergencey!

Good thing it's not, say, a plumbing emergency. You wouldn't want me anywhere near your plumbing.

well you have definatly fixed my folk leak.
thank you

[benhall.1]

Hmmm ... are you sure, Chris? The one that's in my head when I think back to listening to Planxty is closer to this, posted by ceolachan in the comments to the third one posted by MTGuru above:

K: D Major
|: A |
def edB | AFD E2 D | DFA AFA | Bee edc |
dd/e/f edB | AFD E2 F | D2 A AFA | Bdc d2 :|
|: e |
fef afd | gfg bag | f2 f agf | g2 g e2 g |
1 f3 afd | g3 bag | ff/g/a efg | fdc d2 :|
2 f/g/af gfe | fdB AFA | Bcd efg | fg/a/f e2 ||

I play it slightly differently, but that's the gist. (E.G. my second part doesn't have a first and second time bar, being the same each time through.) I've sometimes thought with this tune, as with quite a few of the 'classic' Irish tunes, that there's a whole family of tunes that are related but more or less different. I think of the tune represented by the first two links from MTGuru's post above as being a different tune, which I call "Kitty Lie Over", and the one I'm referring to as being "The Frost is All Over". I've even been known to play them both in the same set of tunes.

[Cathy Wilde]

Ben's is the jig I know as "The Frost is All Over." The lyrics I heard to that tune on a de Danaan recording (I believe it was from their "Selected Jigs, Reels & Songs" tour) go:

The praties are dug and the frost is all over
Kitty lie over close to the wall
How would you like to be married to a solider
Kitty lie over close to the wall

So from those lyrics, it could be called either name!

The tune MT cited last is what I know as "What'll You Do When The Kettle Boils Over" that also goes by the name (rough and ready ABCs are mine; apologies for any errors) Kitty Lie Over.

T: What'll You Do When The Kettle Boils Over (Kitty Lie Over)
M:6/8
K:Dmaj
|:AFD DFA| Bdd B2 A |ABA FEF |GFG EFG|
AFD DFA |Bdd B2 A| ABA ~F3 |EDD D3:|
|:fdd ede |fdd d2e| fef def| gfg efg|
fed B2A| AdF ~G3| ABA F2E| EDD D3:|

Anyway, both these tunes are commonly referred to as "The Kilfenora Jigs" after a set (or maybe two!) played by the Kilfenora Ceili Band. (And then there are the OTHER Kilfenora/Kilmovee jigs, but don't get me started on those).

The A parts and B parts of these jigs seem to get swapped around like crazy, along with a very close third we call The Munster Buttermilk (but NOT the "Behind The Haystack" MB or the other one) but I'm not sure that's the right name (more R&R ABCs) ...

T: Gan Ainm (aka Munster Buttermilk 3)
M:6/8
K:Dmaj
|:d2f edB|BAF FEF|AFE DFA|BAF DFA|
|:d2f edB|BAF FEF|AFE DEF|EFE D2 B:|
AFA d2 e|faf fed|fge fdB|def edB|
AFA d2 e|faf fed|edB Adf|edc d2A:|

And then there's that wacky Humors of Glendart which seems to get mixed in sometimes, too. Sheesh!

Ah heck, I don't know what all that was about. But it was fun to ponder.

[MTGuru]

Well Ben, the Planxty B part (which I'm listening to right now) is definitely Norbeck's, not the one you posted. However, Planxty do play (and sing) your A part as one of their reps, but the Norbeck A for the rest. Confusing enough?

Yes, it seems to be one of those jumbles of several parts, tunes, and titles all hanging loosely together in different combinations. If I had to separate out "Kitty" and "Frost", I think I'd do it the same way that you and Cathy describe.

[benhall.1]

... transmogrify being the forum 'word of the month'.

It is indeed confusing. I was only using my internal softdrive© (dammit! I see that term's been taken already. Ah stuff it, I'm 'avin' it too so there) for the Planxty recording. I'll have to dig out the old vinyl and scrape out the grooves to hear the thing the way they actually did it. You've got me intrigued now ...

[straycat82]

All three are lovely tunes. Our small session has adopted Mick & Caoimhín's set of Kitty Lie Over (Kilfenora) / Munster Buttermilk, such a lovely set. I also love to hear the Séamus Ennis and Planxty versions. Planxty is playing The Hare in the Corn followed by Kitty Lie Over (Kilfenora) and Frost is All Over arranged together and followed by Gander in the Pratie Hole. Of course, Ennis' version is just the one tune (Kilfenora).

[chris_coreline]

actually i think i have this one confused with the humors of glendart aswell as listening to it last night its not the one MTguru initially posted.

its so much of a mess of different lyrics / names / variations that trying to learn it is probably a bit of a lost cause.

[Cathy Wilde]

-- indeed. But that's why I decided I'd better learn the lot, though I'll admit it's always exciting to wonder whether we'll assemble a "Frankentune" by the time we get done -- and I really don't know which one I'm playing while I'm playing it, I just know what comes next. But IMO, they're all such great tunes they're well worth the effort, and even the occasional trainwreck. And if you're ever in a session that's sagging or flattening out any one of them is like musical botox -- great for restoring lift. Have fun!

[straycat82]

actually i think i have this one confused with the humors of glendart .... its so much of a mess of different lyrics / names / variations that trying to learn it is probably a bit of a lost cause.

I picked up Jimmy Ward's, Humors of Glendart and The Little Fair Canavan's all in the same half hour from another whistler. It was a bit tough keeping them apart at first but how nice is it to come away with not one, but three working tunes? My reaction to the confusion was to put them in a set together and work at it until it wasn't confusing anymore. Not long before they were sorted out. Nothing wrong with that at all

[Cathy Wilde]

And now ... I dare you to add "Give Us A Drink" after the Cannavans

[benhall.1]

Yeah, I get what you mean, Cathie, and I'd never noticed that before.

Just as a footnote, I am assuming that you mean by "Give Us a Drink" the tune that is actually called "The Swaggering Jig". The tune that is sometimes called "The Swaggering Jig" is actually "Give Us a Drink of Water" and is quite different. Apparently, sleevenotes to one of the Bothy Band's albums got the two tune names the wrong way round, after which there has been some confusion ...

[bensdad]

Here's Debbie teaching the Swaggering Jig:
http://source.pipers.ie/Media.aspx?mediaId=21042
and the dots:
http://source.pipers.ie/data/scorch/The ... ingJig.htm

[Cathy Wilde]

Whoops, I stand -- erm, slink -- corrected. I got the tune from Paddy Keenan as "Give Us A Drink." I guess the mental tune bank is officially full, as I've known the other "Give Us A Drink of Water" for years and never even blinked at the conflict. Sorry about that! Thanks, guys!

So instead ... Little Fair Cannavans and Swaggering Jig, avast!

Debbie looks so serious in that video! Hard to believe it's her. Thanks for the link.