PENNYWHISTLE, TINWHISTLE OR WHISTLE? What's in a name?

elliott · Post by **elliott** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 8:51 pm

John Skelton just gave a lecture/demo at a local U, and he swore up and down that 1) the term "pennywhistle" refered to playing for pennies. 2) No-one ever sold a whistle for a penny. 3) The connotation of "pennywhistle" is "cheapness". He calls them "tinwhistles", whatever they are made of.
Myself, I lean toward "whistle", but I kinda like that cheap connotation. Maybe I'll switch (and sell my Copeland)!
Opinions?

Isilwen · Post by **Isilwen** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 9:32 pm

Personally, I usually refer to them as Irish Whistles or Irish TinWhistles, rarely as TinWhistles, but when talking with other 'whistle folk,' I'll use plain ol' Whistle. Never Pennywhistle, simply b/c I feel it's a royal mouthful to try to get out at once. lol. Irish Whistle sits much better on the tongue IMO, and you have Irish Flutes and Irish Fiddles, so why not Irish Whistles?

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Sun Dec 08, 2002 9:36 pm

He's right. The first mass marketed whistle (the original Clarke) sold for a half penny (also known as a "Meg," which is why Clarke calls its new ultra-cheap whistle "Meg"). A penny was a standard tip for a street busker.

I just call mine "whistles." Even the cheapest cost more than a penny (well, except for the Meg D, which I got as a freebie from Shanna Quay when I ordered my O Briain "improved") and none, again with the exception of the Meg, is made of tin. It certainly doesn't bother me, however, if folks call them penny whistles, tin whistles, or even tin flutes (or, for that matter, "tube things")...and they don't seem to mind either.

Redwolf

tomandceil · Post by **tomandceil** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:27 am

Ah, yes, the Chiffboard. I haven't been here for quite a while, pressures of work, etc. But having had to explain what this silly little tube I'm playing far too many times over the past 20 years, I find this thread interesting. I generally say "tinwhistle", because then I can launch into a humorous (or so I think) monologue about what whistles are made of (the old "my wooden whistle would'n whistle" joke still gets laughs, believe it or not). To me, "pennywhistle" sounds like a toy, but I'll get a cheap laugh saying "They used to cost a penny, but now you can't get one for much less than $8 (or whatever number pops into my head at the time),so they should change the name to $8 whistles". Funny? No. But it gets a chuckle. But when people in the music department(I teach music-history courses) ask me what instrument I play, I'll say "Irish tinwhistle," because it cuts out a lot of the explanation time. They probably don't what it is, and I still have to explain, but the word "Irish" is a time-saver in itself. But among musicians, of a more folkish nature, it's simply a whistle -- they don't ask me to bring my "tinwhistle" but to bring my "whistle", for example. Other, non-folkish people will say "Oh, bring your flute." Actually, the whistle is classified as a "fipple flute," but when I say that I have to get into a long-drawn-out explanation of what a fipple is. WE know what a fipple is (maybe we don't always know what chiff is!), but did you ever try to explain it to a classical musician without having your instrument at hand? Sounds easier than it actually is. (I've also found that several classically trained flute players of my acquaintance have difficulty playing the whistle; so much for the whistle being a flute . . .)
The funny thing is, with all the exposure the whistle has received in recent years, an awful lot of people who I feel should know better act as if they're seeing it for the very first time.
Tom Bingham
(R.I.P., Paddy Tunney)

Wandering_Whistler · Post by **Wandering_Whistler** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:38 am

My band played at Dickens on the Strand this weekend (Victorian era festival for all you folks who aren't from Houston/Galveston).

After one of our performances, someone asked me what I was playing, so I told him a "tinwhistle", and wrote it down for him.

Among my musician friends, and folks who know, I'll just call it a "whistle", but I find that term lacking when introducing someone to the whistle. Most folks who ask me about the whistle for the first time are usually interested in buying one, and if I told them to look for an "irish whistle", a "fipple flute", or even just a "whistle", they'd have a much harder time finding one online or in a music store than with "penny whistle" or "tinwhistle". And tinwhistle's quicker to write.

[ This Message was edited by: wandering_whistler on 2002-12-09 15:58 ]

madguy · Post by **madguy** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:01 am

I'll go along with the nomenclature of "whistle", although if you're looking for a new one on Ebay you'd best try the other names.

My wife refers to them as "tooters"!!!

~Larry

Vinny · Post by **Vinny** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:45 pm

Hey Elliott,

If it helps any, I'll buy your Copeland for a penny.

Vinny

Wandering_Whistler · Post by **Wandering_Whistler** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:06 pm

On 2002-12-08 21:51, ELLIOTT wrote:
John Skelton just gave a lecture/demo at a local U, and he swore up and down that 1) the term "pennywhistle" refered to playing for pennies. 2) No-one ever sold a whistle for a penny. 3) The connotation of "pennywhistle" is "cheapness". He calls them "tinwhistles", whatever they are made of.
Myself, I lean toward "whistle", but I kinda like that cheap connotation. Maybe I'll switch (and sell my Copeland)!
Opinions?

I mentioned earlier what I call them (whistles for the initiated, tinwhistles for those who aren't), but I didn't really address what I thought of Mr. Skelton's remarks.

I think his anti-cheapness bias is coloring his thinking.

I've done a fair amount of web-based research into the name 'penny whistle', and near as I can determine, there's no written record for the origin of the name. Thus, any reasoning concerning it can only be a guess (whether educated or not).

As for stating that no one ever sold a whistle for a penny, that seems illogical. If Clarke originally sold his whistles for less than a penny, it seems logical to assume that eventually inflation brought the price point to a penny before eventually increasing it to it's current price (about $12.50 USD for a Clarke original in the music stores around these parts).

It also seems logical that street buskers may have played for pennies, but again, there doesn't seem to be any documentary evidence that this was the standard tip. If the whistle cost a meg, wouldn't it be logical that buskers would make half-pennies, pennies, and other denominations in tips? I know that when my band busks, we make tips in all sorts of denominations (up to $20-bill tips, which we've made on a number of occasions).

I think a lot of folks have their own pet theories, and many of 'em make sense. I'd personally love to see some authoritative research on the subject, though. I'm curious that way.

[ This Message was edited by: Wandering_Whistler on 2002-12-09 16:09 ]

Isilwen · Post by **Isilwen** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 5:59 pm

I've also heard it called a flute, piccolo, or just a pipe.

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:19 pm

Right, let's go for more revisionism.

"No whistles ever sold for a penny"

"No dollar ever bought a jean"

"No-one was ever sold for 30 denarii"

"Ain't no such thing as a Polish pope"

and, of course

"This two-bits worth never made a quarter"

the_instrument_player · Mon Dec 09, 2002 6:31 pm

Doesn't it just get you when people call them flutes or, worse yet, recorders??? (Ok, I like recorders, but it just ticks me off when people call my whistles recorders. Sort of like an identity crisis for the poor whistle)
My little neighbor boy used to call mine Pickle Whistles. =)
I just say whistles.... easiest, I think. And then you don't have to go into the differentiation of why you don't call a Low D a "penny whistle" but instead a "low whistle" because people are like, is it the same instrument or what?
I think in general people tend to find these whistles we so love very confusing. =)

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:38 pm

Tin Whistle as a name does create problems, some chinese trade outfit sent me an email providing their services of exporting tin to make tin whistles to me once.

It was a little difficult to explain to them that tin whistles are no longer made of tin. Probably the same ones that cut two inches off a whistle in the other thread.

Oh, yes. A few friends suggested that I try selling whistles to schools. They don't seem to realize the difference between Tin Whistles and Recorders. However, maybe should get the schools to use Tin Whistles.

[ This Message was edited by: Daniel_Bingamon on 2002-12-09 21:41 ]

elliott · Post by **elliott** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 11:24 pm

If tinwhistles are made of tin, then what do they make foghorns out of? BOOM BOOM

Interesting posts! One from Texas reminded me that I discombobulate certain people and audiences by saying I play a flageolet. Well worth the looks you get till you explain. Fipple flute works great with kids of a certain age, too, come to think of it.

Also, allow me to discompose a mis-a-rap-a-rention (Jimmy Durante, 1942): John Skelton was not biased one way or the other regarding cheapness. He merely said that in England the term "pennywhistle" connoted cheapness, and so he did not use it. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I never heard of that and was wondering if ianyone else thought so. And, what term do kwela musicians use?

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:09 am

And, what term do kwela musicians use?

I *think* the term is pennywhistle. I seem to recall kwela sometimes referred to as pennywhistle jive. One thing I'd bet on: kwela musicans don't call our little instrument the 'Irish' whistle.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 12:35 am

I'm still hanging in there for "tube thing." Or hey...maybe we could call them "Notas" as in "it's not a flute, it's not a recorder, it's not a piccolo, it's not a flageolet, it's not a tonette, it's not a toy" etc.

Redwolf