hawkes and son history?

[ducks]

hello! I'm sorry to arrive with questions - but I'm guessing that the obvious way to find internet forums is when you're looking for something, so I hope you'll excuse me.

Does anyone know of a good source of info on the history of Hawkes and Son? All I know is that they merged with Boosey to form Boosey and Hawkes in 1930. I'm asking because I have acquired what I think is probably a fife, though it may be a piccolo, made by Hawkes and Son, Denham Street. I have a feeling they had several addresses but have no idea of dates.

I didn't even set out to own it; I was looking for non-Dixon polymer flutes; it's the curse of ebay!

[Sillydill]

Hey Ducks,

CONGRATULATIONS!

Flute maker Dave Copley sent me the following information about Hawkes et al.

The information I have on Hawkes if from the New Langwill Index. They show:
1860-62, Hawkes & Co, Cumberland St, Pimlico
1862-75, Hawkes & Co, 33 Soho Square
1875, Hawkes & Co, Leicester Square
1876-89, Riviere & Hawkes, Leicester Square
1889-95 Hawkes & Son, Leicester Square
1895-1930, Hawkes & Son, Denman St, Picaddilly Circus

[ducks]

that's fantastic, thank you! I now know a lot more about it than I did - all I have to do now is wait and see if it's playable yet

[Denny]

Terry McGee has bits scattered about....
http://www.google.com/search?q=hawkes+s ... flutes.com

[Casey Burns]

There is a pretty decent writeup about Hawkes and Son on Wikipedia at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boosey_%26_Hawkes

This site discusses serial numbers:
http://www.horniman.ac.uk/pdf/bandh_handlists_web.pdf

Dating these things can be tricky. Sometimes instruments were made by other manufacturers and then stamped with the well known brands. I just learned about this with saxophones that were stamped by Selmer but were made for them in the US by Buescher and Conn. Similar things were happening with flutes. I suspect that some American brands were actually made in London, and labeled here. The modern day example of this are Scottish Bagpipes supposedly manufactured in Scotland but are really made in Pakistan.

Globalization and outsourcing are really 19th century concepts!

[Dominic Allan]

I've got a Riviere and Hawkes , I'll dig it out and post a picture later.

[Sillydill]

Well if we are gonna post pictures!

Here's my atypical Hawkes & Co., 33 Soho Square:



Note the wide German Silver Band over the socket on the head. The socket is lined (French style) and the wood of course cracked. So a previous owner, turned down the shoulder and fitted the ring.

I played this flute regularly a year ago, while I was in my small hole/Baroque phase. I really like the elegant key-work.

[Dominic Allan]

Riviere and Hawkes: (Left) one of my series 2 flutes(right)- I aquired this flute last year.

[tucson_whistler]

thanks for the photos guys. beautiful.

[Dominic Allan]

Two things interest me:
1 My flute and Jordan's are potentially only a year or two apart, Jordans has small hole mine are large, when did that change or did they offer both types at some point?
2 The keywork looks a bit like mine, look at the g# touch on Jordans, also the foot joints on mine. My photo is very bad (cheap camera+ no aptitude for photography) The touch pieces are similar. I hadn't set eys on a Hawkes flute at the time when I designed my keywork.

[ducks]

They are gorgeous and put my tiny one to shame, it's rather tatty and has a crack. It's a project. No, really...

[Sillydill]

Hey Dominic,

I very much like the key-work on your flute! Nice Tromlitz lever on your Fnat keys! Only thing missing is the RH touch for the Bb.

As I stated my Hawkes & Co. flute is atypical, it is a French style flute.

Jon C. has a 6-key Riviere & Hawkes that is one of the most powerful flutes I've ever played:

[ducks]

ha, it arrived and it is (a) tiny (b) old and in need of TLC and (c) impossible for me to get a note out of for the D fingering, which may be my fault, but I'm usually pretty good at getting notes out of things. It's the playing them in a sensible order I have problems with oh, and (d) it appears to be in E, if we're using folk denomination. Odd. That's what you get for buying a pig inna poke!

I now have eighty bazillion questions which I think I need to start a new thread about. I'm sorry...

[jemtheflute]

ha, it arrived and it is (a) tiny (b) old and in need of TLC and (c) impossible for me to get a note out of for the D fingering, which may be my fault, but I'm usually pretty good at getting notes out of things. It's the playing them in a sensible order I have problems with oh, and (d) it appears to be in E, if we're using folk denomination. Odd. That's what you get for buying a pig inna poke!

I now have eighty bazillion questions which I think I need to start a new thread about. I'm sorry...

Nah, stick to this one - we know where you are! Post some photos and ask away. Oh, and the pitch thing - assuming it isn't leaking so much you can't test properly, it is very likely in Eb and High Pitch to boot. Is it this one? If so, looks cute, nice box, decent price, quite a bit to do to make it playable, leave alone restore fully (probably not worth it - looks like it needs a new crown, which unless you have a tame wood turner won't be easy.....).

[ducks]

a tone sharp?! ow.
or it's supposed to be e flat and is a semitone sharp?

I don't think it's leaking much; though it does have a horrible crack in the head joint, it's pretty much sealed by the metal core (I knew the crack was going to be there). The notes I can get out of it are consistently a tone above what I'd expect for the fingering (in D for whistle/folk flute or C for Boehm). Having said that, I'm used to something either fully keyed or with none (unless you count the low keys on a tenor recorder) and haven't yet worked out what the keys I have on here actually do!

As I said, I didn't actually intend to buy this, I was looking for a simple flute/fife in low or high D and ended up taking a punt on something very cheap and potentially interesting; I'm a metalworker and thought that it would be interesting to see if I could transfer any of my skills in making/mending small, annoying and fiddly things to this.

I will post some pictures, if that's ok - it's a nice object, even if it's not working properly at the moment (though as I said, that might be me. Not convinced about that, though) - it still fits together beautifully and all the keys are in working order, with one loose pad. The decirative top bit is missing, but the plug is still there and functional.

thank you.