Ugh! Buying Silver for Flutes....

[Casey Burns]

I am sure some of the other flute makers out there who use silver for rings and key work can sympathize. I was getting low on ring stock (16 gauge, dead soft, usually purchase 6" X 18.75" at a time, slightly over 30 ounces) and finally bit the bullet and ordered some this morning - for $1042.72. This is at a current spot price of $30.11 an ounce. Oh, for the days when Silver ranged between $4 to $5. Last year at this time I got a bunch for $14.78. Its just a bad thing that I didn't get a bunch more then!

A more ominous sign - my silver supplier (they are big and sell lots of this and gold) wasn't sure at first if they had this common item in stock! That has never happened before. In bullion, when the price is about to soar, it commonly disappears from the usual places you can buy it such as coin stores, etc. It may be that the jewelry suppliers are starting to experience shortages as well, even with all the silver scrap recycling underway.

I got enough to cover my current queue and then some.

The pundits I read (Jim Willie, etc.) are all saying this stuff is going to keep going up, thanks to the magnificent way central bankers everywhere are fumbling the economy. Also silver has been "undervalued" relative to gold - its price manipulated down. That is all coming apart at the seams. I raised my key and tuning slide prices in the middle of last decade anticipating this, and also to slow down the number of keyed flute orders then (I had too many). I know one other maker who is now charging a surcharge for the substantial rings used on some of his flute models.

If silver keeps going up, I'll have to look into other materials. I really don't like brass, although its relatively easily available. I've never worked with nickel silver or German silver much. Does anyone have a good suggestions how to solder nickel? Nothing I have tried works well for rings.

Ugh!

Casey

[Dominic Allan]

It's exactly the same as for silver.
The only noticable difference is that nickel dosen't conduct the heat as well as silver, this actually makes it easier as you can concentrate the flame near to the joint you are trying to solder rather than heating the whole piece up.

[Casey Burns]

What type of solder to use then? Will Easy Silver work?

[an seanduine]

Casey, are you talking about high nickel content nickel, or even pure nickel? Or are you using the more common white brass alloys?
When I worked in the metal trades fabricating exotic metals,we worked with pure nickel and high content nickel/noble alloys. These aren't really suitable for the smaller shop. . .we used noble gas atmospheres with TIG welding equipment to avoid oxygen contamination of the joints. If the high-nickel alloys are worked before welding/brazing they are subject to becoming brittle and cracking from oxygen contamination. Heat treating the work to a fully annealed state in an oxygen free atmosphere BEFORE brazing or welding can help the cracking but you lose any of the advantage of hardness in using nickel.
Free machining white-brass (so called German Silver) is easier to braze with high silver content bearing alloys. For lower temp work with less strength, more gap filling ability you might even fool around with the newer silver bearing/tin lead free solder now being used on home plumbing. These work at below 500 deg. f. and avoid some of the oxygen problems.

Bob

[I.D.10-t]

You don't remember when the brothers controlled the market.

[Dominic Allan]

To clarify: I'm talking about nickel silver / German silver, copper/nickel alloy.
The last silver solder that I bought was called Silver Flow 55, At the moment I'm using up some odd bits of solder that I had lying around, I don't know what it is but it works fine.

[Casey Burns]

What I would use would be 65% copper, 17% zinc, 18% nickel, available from RioGrande in 16 gauge. Would want to hard solder it enough to use for rings. Soft plumbing solder (95% tin, 5% silver) is too soft for this application

Casey

[Dominic Allan]

I've always used hard solder , I've never had any problems.
I bought silver flow 55 (it's a cadmium free silver solder, not hallmark standard) it's what we used for soldering nickel silver keywork at Howarth's oboe factory, I stuck with it when I stopped working for them. In my experience any silver solder will do the job.

[Maihcol]

I had to buy some brass here last week - shocking price! I use it for the rings on my flutes and then get a heavy nickel plating on the finished rings. The people I usually buy the relatively small amounts of brass from have stopped using it themselves because of the price, so I had to go and order a much larger quantity elsewhere because of minimum order size. I should have enough for several years.

I read this morning that mining giant Rio Tinto has almost tripled its profits this year and:

"...Copper, iron ore, tin and gold are all close to all-time records, while silver and palladium are at multi-decade highs and aluminum, nickel, platinum and coal have risen to their highest levels since the global financial crisis..."

Garry

[Doug_Tipple]

I have a supply of hard copper pipe in my basement that I plan to use as a retirement resource, cashing in one five-foot piece at a time at the bank.

[Steve Bliven]

I have a supply of hard copper pipe in my basement that I plan to use as a retirement resource, cashing in one five-foot piece at a time at the bank.

Ah, PVC, the new silver....

Best wishes.

Steve

[LorenzoFlute]

Feel lucky yo don't make silver flutes... (and I feel lucky I'm not in the market for one)

[kkrell]

Feel lucky yo don't make silver flutes... (and I feel lucky I'm not in the market for one)

So, how much silver is there in a sterling silver flute?

[Gabriel]

Prices are tough here as well - I bought my first D profile ring stock for 0,79€ per gram, now it's 2,16€ per gram. I'll probably change my ring design to accomodate the steep price. Maybe 3mm wide rings instead of 4mm...we'll see.

Silver solder should work just nicely for hard soldering nickel/german silver. I've done it a few times before. You probably want to use a solder with a rather high working temperature, mine works at 720°C. Thats a bit tough for soldering silver (if you don't want to melt your bits down after a second of inattentiveness), but for nickel silver it works just fine.

[Dominic Allan]

Silver Flow 55 is 630-660'C