beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

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gregwhistle
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beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by gregwhistle »

Hello-

So I'm a rank beginner ... though I think I'm progressing not too horrifically considering that I have no instruction and little time to practice :)

Anyway, the problem. I am able to get decent sounding high notes (the upper octave) on a "Clarke Original Penny Whistle", key of D.

I am not able to get decent sounding high notes on three other whistles:

Waltons Little Black Tin Whistle in D

Waltons Irish Penny Whistle Key of C

Freeman Whistle Tweaked C Sweetone


So either 1. I have really bad luck with whistles, or 2. I'm doing something wrong (but which still happens to work on the Clarke original), or 3. ???


Open to any suggestions as to what to try :)
Pipe Bender
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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by Pipe Bender »

I have had a Waltons Irish and a Sweetone, but have never tried a Little Black D or the Clarke Original. In any case, some whistles require much more breath than others and I believe the Clarke Original is one that does. Also it is not uncommon for some whistles to really need that extra boost of breath for the high A and B notes and I don't know if the Clarke original falls into this category or not.

Having said this, my first thought is to try not blowing the second octave as hard for the other 3 whistles as you do for the Clarke Original.

I am sure someone who is familiar with the Clarke Original will help with a posting soon.
AvienMael
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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by AvienMael »

Breath control. Your Clarke is apt to be more forgiving than the three other whistles you have listed. Be patient, practice. It will come, and shortly thereafter, it will come naturally. :)
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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by Kypfer »

My Waltons "Little Black" needs a more aggressive "attack" (the "T" at the start of the note) to hit the higher notes consistently than my Clarke Original does. My Clarke is inherently "sweeter" in the upper octave than my Waltons ... this is just the nature of a tapered body compared to a cylindrical body. Not a good thing or a bad thing, just different ... some like it, some don't ... horses for courses :)
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trill
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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by trill »

I've found that what causes me to squeak most often is incomplete coverage of a hole (inaccurate finger placement). This really came to light when I started playing whistles in different keys. You see, the holes are sized and spaced differently. In fact, even for a single key, there's a little variation in hole size+placement from mfr to mfr.

When you hear a squeak, maybe you could try a little experimentation in finger placement. One thing to avoid, though, is simply squeezing hard to cover the hole. You don't want to stress your fingers if you can avoid it. Most especially, you don't want to "death grip" your whistle as a matter of habit. You can really get pain in your fingers. Ask me how I know...

trill
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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by gregwhistle »

Thank you all for your suggestions! I will try experimenting more with how hard I am blowing, how aggressive the "attack", and with finger placement.
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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by robert schuler »

My Oak D is a very tempermental whistle and squeeks even when not blowing into it!. With this whistle I learned the finer points of breath control and can turn out some very nice sounding tunes with the Oak. Always start by playing the scale backwards from the 6th hole down a few times to get the right pace for breathing and go from there... Bob.
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gregwhistle
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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by gregwhistle »

robert schuler wrote:My Oak D is a very tempermental whistle and squeeks even when not blowing into it!. With this whistle I learned the finer points of breath control and can turn out some very nice sounding tunes with the Oak. Always start by playing the scale backwards from the 6th hole down a few times to get the right pace for breathing and go from there... Bob.
I do need to spend more time doing scales ...


What are some things to consider with breath control besides just not blowing too hard? (Or is the topic too ineffably indescribable to describe? :))
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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by Kypfer »

besides just not blowing too hard?
... not blowing too softly :lol:

Seriously though, it's all down to practice ... scales, arpeggios, easy little tunes ... they all have their place in the larger scheme of things, specifically, in this instance, familiarisation with the breath requirements of your whistles.

We've all had to go through it, some of us have even emerged relatively unscathed :twisted:
"I'm playing all the right notes—but not necessarily in the right order."
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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by gregwhistle »

Kypfer wrote:
besides just not blowing too hard?
... not blowing too softly :lol:
:P

:lol:
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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by ecohawk »

I'm in the camp that says this is about breath control for two reasons. I own and play a Walton's little black and a Freeman Tweaked Sweetone. If the Sweetone is squeaking, it is breathing. I can't imagine a fingering problem with this whistle since the holes are well finished and well spaced, particularly the C. The Little Black is a gem of a whistle, particularly when Andrea Corr is playing it :love: . Seriously, it might squeak from fingering but not likely. IMO, the last thing that comes around when starting out is proper breathing technique and it will vary widely between whistles. Though fingering will vary somewhat as well, it's not nearly as variable as breathing. Practice switching intervals. I do scales but YMMV.

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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by RonKiley »

If it squeaks at the onset of the note it is likely finger position. If it gives a squeaky or raspy sound throughout a note it is likely breath control. Some of the whistles like the Oak require very little breath. When you get the breath right it is a delightful whistle. Some whistles like the Feadog are very sensitive to finger placement. When I get it right it is one of my favorite whistles. Keep practicing it will come. By the way did I mention they may respond differently to different people.

Ron
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gregwhistle
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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by gregwhistle »

Paying closer attention with all your suggestions in mind, I'm thinking that it is about breath.

Even in the low notes, the Clarke original appears to be very forgiving and sounds pretty good over a much wider range of breath intensity.

Or perhaps the other three are very unforgiving, depending on one's perspective lol They take a very specific amount of breath strength (a narrow range) to get the note right. And for some of the upper octave notes, even with careful experimenting I can't seem to hit the sweet spot - enough air to switch to the upper octave makes it squeak.

But I'm sure it will come, somehow, with practice :)
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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by AvienMael »

I find that once the whistle is warmed up (and I am too) and the humidity inside the whistle has stabilised (and I have too :P ), that the breath begins to develop it's own substance that you have to support and shape and nurture. Think about how you whistle a tune through just your lips, and spend a few moments toying with that - the many ways you can shape and shade a tone or bend a note, or fade it away, or bring it to fullness from just a faint whisper when just whistling through your lips... Breath control on a penny whistle is very much akin to this. The need to breathe in the appropriate places, and the need to sustain your notes with an even amount of force is the same. The need to blow harder to produce higher notes, and softer to produce lower notes is also the same. You may notice too, that your lips and tongue move with these efforts, and very similar (if not the same) changes in the lips and tongue are applied to playing the penny whistle... that's the only way I can think of to explain it. I used to find it easier to learn to whistle a new tune without the penny whistle first. It is helpful for memorizing the tune faster, among other things.
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AvienMael
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Re: beginner - squeeky high notes, but only on some whistles?

Post by AvienMael »

Something which rarely happens, happened this weekend: I found myself alone in the house for an entire night and most of today. This gave me an opportunity to sit down and get some serious practice time in for the first time in a couple of months. Whenever I get such an opportunity, I like to get out a few whistles that I don't neccessarily play very often, in addition to playing the ones that I play regularly. This means I've just spent more than 12 hours playing whistles that have widely varying breath requirements, sometimes checking my pitch against the tuner, and as I was playing I started thinking about this question of breath control...

I think that one bit of advice which would be somewhat universal, regardless of what whistle one is playing, is that you need to master producing notes clearly, with as minimal an amount of breath as the whistle will allow. The requirements for each note tend to be a little different, although this characteristic is certainly more pronounced on some whistles than on some others. One other thing to keep in mind, since I mentioned checking pitch against a tuner, is that most whistles bear a compromise between true pitch and good intonation. If you are trying to check yourself with a tuner, you needn't blow every single note in the scale perfectly. On a D whistle, for example, the bell note (bottom D), the second octave D, C-natural, and G's in both octaves are the notes you will want to concentrate on, because these are the notes that anchor the two major scales on a D whistle. The notes in between need only be blown to sound correct in comparison with these "anchor" notes, whether or not the tuner agrees with your ear. This won't always hold true for every tune, of course, but it's a good place to start as you begin to develop breath control. Once you start to feel comfortable with that, try to focus on playing in both octaves without them sounding radically different from one another. As your breath control develops, you should find that the first octave can be played a little fuller and louder, and the second octave can be played a little quieter and less shrill and screachy, and it will actually begin to sound "sweeter" than the first octave.

I've never been any kind of teacher, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if someone who has, contradicts this advice in some way... but hopefully it will give you a couple of ideas about what you need to do to start making the whistles you are playing sound more like you would like them to. The Waltons whistles are very unforgiving to beginners - heck, some are very unforgiving to everyone. The Sweetone is a great first whistle and great for learning new tunes, but not very good for developing breath control IMO. You might want to give serious thought to investing in a Freeman Blackbird, or Freeman tweaked Generation or Feadog. I personally like Oak pennywhistles and Feadogs, but finding a really decent one can sometimes be a challenge, so it's worth your money to get a whistle you can have confidence in from Jerry at this stage in your learning.
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