Tenor banjo question, intonation and where to rest wrist

[Rhadge]

Hello.

I'm new to the banjo and uncertain where to rest the right-hand wrist when playing, if at all?
Been watching youtube videos, but can't really see how the players do it.
I've tried resting my wrist on the bridge, which makes it easier to play triplets but on the other hand it seems to mute the skin. But maybe the skin is supposed to be a bit muted, so that the sound remains crisp and short?

And another question I have, is about the sound that bounces from the skin.
The G, D and A strings have good intonation and the pitch from the skin is roughly the same as from the string.
When playing the C string though, I get a slightly lower pitch from the skin.
Could this be due to the bridge position being a bit off, or could it be a worse problem?

Hope someone can assist me

[Rob Sharer]

If you contact the bridge or head with your picking hand, you will mute the banjo. This certainly isn't going to give you that snappy Irish tone we all know and love.

Your right hand should float above the bridge without touching. Watch this clip of the great Marcus Moloney playing and note how his arm only contacts the arm-rest.



Rob

[Rhadge]

Great vid. I guess it will take longer for me to learn banjo than I thought, being used to resting my wrist against the bridge when playing guitar.
I could swear though that Barney MacKenna mutes the skin repeatedly in this video (for example at 1:15): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p8HSw_t-G8
And also this guy, who seems to rest his pinkie and ring fingers on the skin and still get a great sound: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYE-W5JM ... re=related

By the way, any clue on how to avoid buzz from the strings that are not being played? What I mean is that my C string for example (I play CGDA) makes a noticeable sound when picking the other strings, so that there's always a background hum from it causing disharmony. Do players mute it or what? With good players, you only hear one crisp note at a time it seems.

[Rob Sharer]

Well, you can kind of do whatever you want, really. I'm just referring to the technique used by many of the top players, especially those with the modern sound.

As for string muting, the answer is all of the above. Both the left and right hands are involved in muting the strings not being played. This takes time to get the hang of, but is truly the mark of an advanced player - no extraneous noise.


Rob

[Rhadge]

I see, thanks for your help.

[Padre]

get an arm rest for the banjo
place the forearm on it
this will help you a little bit
if you really need to rest hand on a banjo you can try to put your pinkie
below the strings
with slight movements you should be able to pick all the strings.

[Thomaston]

I may be recalling this wrong, but I seem to remember Enda Scahill's tutor saying to rest the outer part of the wrist on the tailpiece or strings, and to use that point as a pivot for picking. That's the technique I adopted, at least, but I may have mis-read something. Maybe it was why I was never able to get those triplets up to speed.

[Rob Sharer]

Well, you could hardly go wrong following Enda Scahill's advice!

I would still say that most of the weight/pressure of your arm should go against the rim, leaving your hand free to both pick and selectively mute strings not being played. A bit of contact with the bridge isn't going to shut things down, but really laying your hand on the bridge/skin is going to choke out the tone of the instrument. I suspect that's not what Enda would have you do.


Enda?


Rob

[fearfaoin]

...especially those with the modern sound.

Rob, how modern is the modern sound?
Are we talking about a particular turning
point or player?

[Rob Sharer]

Good question. Deserves a longer answer, but here's my short take:

First, a rant. Here in America, any music shop with a short-scale, 17 fret, open back, no-tone-ring tenor to sell will invariably state in the ad, "perfect for Celtic music". What exactly they mean by Celtic music is another good question (sensitive slow airs on the banjo?), but what really irks me is how far a banjo like that is from what one sees in sessions in Ireland.

The Banjo style most often seen in the hands of cracking players in Ireland is a long-scale, 19 fret tenor with a resonator and an arch-top tone ring. This style of tone ring makes the head diameter (nominally 11") somewhat smaller, resulting in a tighter, snappier, more focused sound. While it's true that many banjos are being made in this style today in Ireland, one need look no further than the ubiquitous Framus tenor, made in Germany and found everywhere Irish music is played. I'm sure it's an arguable point, but most likely what drove players onto this style of banjo was its appearance in the hands of Barney McKenna of the Dubliners, as prominent an exponent of Irish tenor playing as you're likely to find. Despite playing a bright-sounding banjo, his use of a thimble instead of a pleccy gives his playing a warm, chummy, plunky sound.

More recently, players like Kevin Griffin, Marcus Moloney, Gerry O'Connor, Enda Scahill, and many others have used standard, thinnish guitar plectrums to get a sharper sound from their banjos, great for doing battle with multiple button boxes in mad sessions. Banjo makers like Tom Cussen and Dave Boyle continue to supply the banjo-starved Irish with instruments made to produce the desired tone when played in that style. Short-scale tenors are comfy and cute, suited mostly to nosing around on a few tunes in your living room. For proper combat operations in the hostile environment of the pub, the long-scale tenor's your only man.


Rob

[Thomaston]

Well, you could hardly go wrong following Enda Scahill's advice!

I would still say that most of the weight/pressure of your arm should go against the rim, leaving your hand free to both pick and selectively mute strings not being played. A bit of contact with the bridge isn't going to shut things down, but really laying your hand on the bridge/skin is going to choke out the tone of the instrument. I suspect that's not what Enda would have you do.


Enda?


Rob

Like I said, I may have mis-read. I'll double-check when I find the book.

[Rob Sharer]

Do let us know what it says.

Meanwhile, here's a pic of Barney McKenna:



He's playing his Clifford Essex Paragon, not a Framus but also an archtop banjo.


Rob

[Rhadge]

I went to the store that sold me the banjo, to let them have a look at it.

The problem I'm having is that even when the bridge is positioned so that the open string and the 12th fret are in tune, the intonation is way off on some other frets. Wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that many of the lower frets have too high intonation.

The guy at the store told me that this kind of uneven intonation was standard for 4-string banjos, and just something one would have to live with because the bridge isn't compensated.
The fact that I've heard many 4-string banjos that have been in-tune, and that non-compensated bridges have been used on instruments for hundreds of years, makes me question his statement. What are your thoughts on it?

Do you think that this kind of intonation problem could be fixed, if so what adjustments could be made in this regard?

[fearfaoin]

I had the exact same problem with my Deering
Goodtime 17-fret. Rob Sharer performed some
magic on it and it is 100% better. So it is
possible for a competent banjo mechanic,
though I don't know how it's done myself.

[Rhadge]

It's good to hear that it can be fixed!

I went to another workshop where they said that the nut could be a bit too high and uneven, but they couldn't guarantee better intonation if they were to fix the nut so I've decided to do a little more research before spending my money. Doesn't seem to far-fetched though, since the unfingered C-string sounds alright yet the first frets have too high intonation.

Would be nice to know if your problem may have had something to do with the nut too.