Bottom Dropped Out

[benhall.1]

youse two are makin' it real difficult for me to get the last word here

I expect you'll manage.

[Nanohedron]

youse two are makin' it real difficult for me to get the last word here

I expect you'll manage.

Yeah, usually he's not one to whine. Feeling okay, there, Denny?

[Denny]

yeah... I's fine


I was just sayin' that they're liable ta go on forever at this rate.


should I have just posted a pic?

[benhall.1]

yeah... I's fine


I was just sayin' that they're liable ta go on forever at this rate.


should I have just posted a pic?

Well, I really don't see the point of that. The animal's clearly deceased. What's the point of continually hitting it?




... oh wait ...

[jim stone]

If Olwell flutes are so wonderful, why would seven of them change hands within a year? That seems incredible to me. I wouldn't think there were seven people in the entire world who in combination 1. played ITM, 2. gave a hoot about Olwell flutes, 3. thought they were worth $5k, 4. had $5k to spend, and 5. just happened to be in the market for one all within the same relative timeframe.

On top of this, we have to consider that seven owners all decided that these wonderful and expensive flutes for which they had to wait 6-10 years were now expendible. For what? Money? Another flute? Makes no sense to me.

This is about the seller's side:

1. One is desperate for money (recession) and one can make lots selling one of these.

2. One has two of them, one blackwood, one cocus, and sells one to make a large profit. One bought the blackwood used and now the new cocus one finally arrives. Selling the blackwood pays for the cocus Olwell and one has a couple of thousand left over.

3. One has an Olwell Pratten and decides that, after all, Rudalls are for him acoustically, so sells the Olwell, which is a superb Pratten, to buy a superb Rudall.

4. One's arthritis or tendinitis or ulnar nerve syndrome or age puts an end to one's playing Prattens or Nicholsons, or to playing flutes entirely.

5. One has lots of money and bought a used Olwell to try out a flute, and now discovers that flute really is lots of trouble and so sells it.

6. One is lured away to concertina or fiddle (instruments of the devil).

7. One dies and one's spouse sells the flute.

8. One is privately dealing in flutes and other instruments, acquiring them and selling them at a reasonable profit.
One has one's ear to the ground, many friends and connections, and learns when flutes might be available privately
for any of the above reasons, buys one or two of them and sells them. So the same flutes get sold twice.

Multiple reasons why there might well be a brisk sale in Olwells in circumstances where
lots of money can be made selling them and money is hard to come by (though not for everyone).
Consistent with Olwells being wonderful.

[Cubitt]

Jim, although your entire list has merit, the explanation that probably tells me what I want to know is about buying and reselling while Olwells are hot. The others on your list are mostly applicable to any instrument by anyone at any time. But if we focus on a high-end flute by a revered maker changing hands so much in a single year, profit on the resale strikes the most true to me, although I would assume that does not account for all of them.

[jim stone]

Thanks. I find myself increasingly intrigued by Rudalls these days, and I'm getting better at playing them.
I can make myself heard in conditions where before only a Pratten would do.
Also, well, the hands are going to turn 70 in a few months. But it is very hard to part with
a keyed Olwell....

I just want to add, here is a video of a barely fair flooter playing a not very good setting of The Orphan
on an Olwell Pratten he just received. The thing is alive!

http://www.youtube.com/user/paganserena ... p4MUAWUQ9U

[Peter Duggan]

If one is willing to spring for a keyed flute, I assume one would be in a financial position to do so, since they are expensive and an unnecessary luxury.

Are they really (an unnecessary luxury)? For those who want to play bog-standard repertoire in bog-standard (and limited) keys, perhaps. But for others, no! So, sure, you don't need the most expensive and you don't need Olwells, but this notion of keyed flute players just ignoring all these superfluous/unnecessary keys just doesn't wash if you do need the keys (and I say this as someone who's about to take delivery of a custom new keyless flute as a potential step on the road to getting a keyed one right).

[Gordon]

Jim, although your entire list has merit, the explanation that probably tells me what I want to know is about buying and reselling while Olwells are hot. The others on your list are mostly applicable to any instrument by anyone at any time. But if we focus on a high-end flute by a revered maker changing hands so much in a single year, profit on the resale strikes the most true to me, although I would assume that does not account for all of them.

Just to fan the flame a bit longer...

We have the stat that 7 Olwells were sold in a year. Big deal. Maybe there were more than that - logic tells me that there probably were.

Do we have any evidence that more than 7 of any other flute by any other maker were not also sold in a year's time? How 'bout antiques? How many Rudall's changed hands in a year? I'd personally guess way more than seven, based on Rudall posts on Ebay alone.

Is there a point to this?

[Rob Sharer]

Dunno, it's up the flagpole and no one's saluting.



Rob

[Cubitt]

Is there a point to this?

Of course there is, despite your not reading and Rob's decision to get snarky (why not address my response?). If you had read any of my many posts in this thread, you would know that I am talking about seven high-end flutes made by the same maker, regardless of whom. Olwell was the subject, so Olwell was the one I spoke to. Read Jim Stone's latest answer to me and my reply to him and you will see the point in this. So useful to have someone who does not see the point weigh in. Do you also buy food no one is going to eat?

And you might also bear in mind that I am talking about instruments for which there is a long wait and high price tag, so antiques are not germane. Most antiques go for far less than an Olwell, even Rudalls.

And finally, to the poster who decided to land on the comment about eight-key flutes being a luxury, you apparently missed the part about mine being an eight-key. I share your preference for a keyed flute and have argued in favor of them throughout my tenure here. But the fact remains that most argue that a keyed flute is not necessary for ITM, and they are mostly right - but only mostly.

[Rob Sharer]

Look, you've had umpteen explanations for why seven of 'em might have changed hands, and you only seem to like one, the most cynical interpretation about profiteering. I didn't address your last response because I don't believe you're arguing in good faith.



Rob

[Peter Duggan]

And finally, to the poster who decided to land on the comment about eight-key flutes being a luxury, you apparently missed the part about mine being an eight-key.

No, I didn't miss it, I chose not to quote it because IMHO it's not an adequate defence of the first point (on which note you only specified eight keys in the case of your own)...

But the fact remains that most argue that a keyed flute is not necessary for ITM, and they are mostly right - but only mostly.

Maybe, but only mostly!

[Denny]

someone wanna sing a couple o'verses of "Panama Red"?


ya know, kinda as background music?

[Cubitt]

Look, you've had umpteen explanations for why seven of 'em might have changed hands, and you only seem to like one, the most cynical interpretation about profiteering. I didn't address your last response because I don't believe you're arguing in good faith.
Rob

Rob, just because I like ya, I went over the whole thread. Wouldn't do that for just anyone, trust me. Even Nano agreed that the seven-in-one-year thing was, in his words, "remarkable." He spoiled it by addressing insinuations I did not intend. He, like you, found it more expeditious to accuse and be nasty rather than seek clarity.

As to the rest, really only Jim addressed what I was talking about. But his getting into things like death or tendonitis does not, I think you would agree, get to the heart of the matter. I can figure those out possibilities without posting. There were some earlier posts that focused on the monetary value of the flutes, so I'm not sure why you consider the suggestion I found to have the most merit to be cynical.

I guess your friendship with Olwell has made you sensitive to any perceived slight, and thus you insist on seeing my discussion as being demeaning to him or his flutes. I guess I cannot persuade you otherwise, but I ask you to please get off the notion that I am not posting in good faith. I have better things to do than pick an argument about Patrick Olwell. There's always Celtic Woman and Michael Flatley, come on!