How important is reading music?

[Grizzle]

It's worth mentioning that Grey Larsen's Book "essential guide to irish flute and tin whistle" does a great job of introducing notations you can use for ITM. If I'm trying to break down a particular recording I've found his notation works pretty good for me. He has specific notation symbols for cuts, strikes ,slides ,struck slides, short rolls, shakes, single trill, long and short crans.

There are some books out there that have recordings notated quite specifically and some I comfortable following them faithfully. The ones from my personal library;
David Lyth's "Bowing Styles in Irish Fiddle Playing"
Brian Ryan's "Sean Ryan's The Hidden Ireland" & "Sean Ryan's Dream"
Some of the tunes in Ryans Mammoth Collection are notated well
Lunasa's Notai is a help especially when they play in a odd key, unusual time signature, or tell me what flute Kevin is using

[killthemessenger]

I agree with everything cboody says - he put it much better than I did - except for "it's the robots of the world we need to get rid of". I haven't yet met any musician worthy of the name who plays like a robot, in any performance tradition, although some take the score a bit more literally than others sometimes. Beginners may play a bit mechanically because they're still getting to grips with the mechanical side of simply playing their instrument, but not an experienced musician. I think it's a bit of a straw man, really. But for the rest, spot on.

I also thought joconnor's post excellent.

[Mr Ed]

Basically gonna repeat what I said on page 5: common sense!

Knowing how to read music doesn't mean one is going to take it to sessions and not be able to do a thing without it. If someone thinks that taking the sheet music to a session is a good idea, a tune has to be played exactly as written, or that it replaces listening to the music probably won't have the mental capacity to learn the damn stuff anyway!

[benhall.1]

Not that it requires much mental capacity. I've learnt quite a bit of it.

[Nanohedron]

Knowing how to read music doesn't mean one is going to take it to sessions and not be able to do a thing without it.

It sounds as if you may have never seen that actually happen. I have, and it's very awkward and not the happiest experience for everyone concerned. But I agree that overall, A does not mean B. When A does mean B, IMO there's a different issue at hand.

If someone thinks that taking the sheet music to a session is a good idea, a tune has to be played exactly as written, or that it replaces listening to the music probably won't have the mental capacity to learn the damn stuff anyway!

I don't agree with the last clause. I do agree that it can be a tough row to hoe, depending on the individual. Some people are habituated to feel adrift and terrified without notation, a vicious cycle if ever there might be one (and mirrored just as equally in the fear of the dots, a condition I know well firsthand, myself). Reminding them that ear memory is our First and Natural Condition and that they didn't pop out of their Mum with a sheaf of printed music clutched in their fist may be good for a chuckle at the truth of it but, all the same, that truth just doesn't seem to help some people without a huge, huge effort. I've seen it work, and I've seen it not work at all. But I'm really not inclined to chalk it up to mental capacity, but rather to habit and comfort levels.

And yes, I've heard the "But that's not how it's written! See? Right here!" protest. Again, I think it's just the supreme discomfort of being rudderless without print. Print is equated with authority, and some people need that for some reason. I know of one case where an incorrigibly read-at-all-costs guitar player was getting the backup for The Black Rogue horribly wrong for some reason and, despite my repeated help, kept doing the same wrong thing for years. I couldn't figure it out. I finally realised she was sneakily going back to the notation of one particular copy. Turns out the key signature was incorrect, a typo; it was missing that C# usual to basic renditions of the tune. Yet because it was in print, she banked on the reliance that surely it must be right, and didn't ask why her version and mine were not meshing at all, nor apparently had she ever compared one printed version to another, which might have quickly corrected the mistake as she sure as heck wasn't going to seriously believe me so long as the paper was there. The assumption that human error would never enter into the print side of things was a notion that amazed me. But there you have it. She wasn't stupid, just that fearful of going without print.

[joconnor58]

Its fair to say that it is expected of any professional musician to play without the music in front of them when performing formally.

Just not so. What is so is that soloists (concerto or alone) will play without music. Frequently chamber groups and people playing one of multiple solo parts (Bach Two violins etc.) do use music. Probably this is true because of the possibility of train wrecks if "the other" player goes in the wrong direction. That, however, does not remove the second point: Whether music is there does not get in the way of fine performance IF the player uses it correctly. It is the robots of the world we need to get rid of.

Noted. Lack of clarity on my part. I was referring to soloists or small ensembles (which can be about 50/50 on whether or not the music is present depending on the repertoire, and the proficiency of the ensemble) but I was not clear about that.

One other point:

1) it is from the baroque period - a time during which composition of music was expected to follow a litany of very strict rules about what was proper.

Not necessarily so. Improvisation was a large part of baroque music. Consider, for just one example, the "improvised preludes." Chords are shown on the page (usually in whole notes) and the player expected to do something interesting with them. Again, this does not argue against the point: that interpretation is expected by players of almost all kinds of music (see my earlier post), and improvisation and/or variation are a big part of much of it.
(

Also noted. Again, somewhat lazy language on my part. In pieces of the era that were composed, the composer (not the player) was expected to adhere to a number of "rules."

As noted, I think we agree on the spirit of the point and I greatly appreciate you helping and adding a higher degree of accuracy to what I was trying to share.

Cheers!

[JTC111]

Ahem...give the guy a break! You didn't pick a performance video but one taken in the recording studio.

He didn't specify one or the other, right? I was simply correcting a bit of misinformation.

[cboody]

Also noted. Again, somewhat lazy language on my part. In pieces of the era that were composed, the composer (not the player) was expected to adhere to a number of "rules."

As noted, I think we agree on the spirit of the point and I greatly appreciate you helping and adding a higher degree of accuracy to what I was trying to share.

Cheers!

Lovely. Just lovely!!! Would that we were all so articulate.

Enjoy whatever holiday your's is.

Oh! And I presume the playing with your elbows signature line means piping. Good luck.

[joconnor58]

Lovely. Just lovely!!! Would that we were all so articulate.

Enjoy whatever holiday your's is.

Oh! And I presume the playing with your elbows signature line means piping. Good luck.

Yes. I have studied many instruments not typically associated with ITM. I have played Low D whistle for some time (I have a Howard and a Generation). But have recently begun my Piping study and my elbows are doing the bulk of the learning.

A very Merry, Happy, Festive, or Joyful of whatever yours may or may not be.

[Mr Ed]

It sounds as if you may have never seen that actually happen. I have, and it's very awkward and not the happiest experience for everyone concerned. But I agree that overall, A does not mean B. When A does mean B, IMO there's a different issue at hand.

I've never seen it happen. Haven't been to a session yet. I have, however, been to many jams/open mic nights. It's something frowned upon to bring any "cheat sheets" or lyrics up on stage. At least it used to be.

I don't agree with the last clause. ...

What I meant was that if one thinks ALL three of those things , that one is not the sharpest Crayon in the box.

[Nanohedron]

It sounds as if you may have never seen that actually happen. I have, and it's very awkward and not the happiest experience for everyone concerned. But I agree that overall, A does not mean B. When A does mean B, IMO there's a different issue at hand.

I've never seen it happen. Haven't been to a session yet. I have, however, been to many jams/open mic nights. It's something frowned upon to bring any "cheat sheets" or lyrics up on stage. At least it used to be.

It seldom if ever happens. But every now and then it does, and you feel kind of bad when someone plunks themselves down with a cheery how-do-you-do, and their notebook. The regulars exchange sidelong glances, and we usually tell this person that this isn't a sheetmusic session, and do they know any tunes by heart? The ones that haven't fully grasped the situation believe they'll be just fine. Best thing you can do is be reasonably kind so long as they don't cop an attitude; they're gonna have it driven home that they're making a big mismatch soon enough, because being hospitable to a stranger is one thing, but changing the session to accommodate the unequipped isn't a requirement. One or two accommodations, MAYBE, but then it's off to the races and a learning opportunity. After a night of scrambling after dots, trying to catch up, and asking those already playing the tune what the tune name is so they can find it - sticking out like a sore thumb and paper, paper everywhere - they tend not to come back unless they start memorising, and - usually - that outcome doesn't follow. Too bad.

I just want to make clear that I know at least one trad musician who outside of the session learns primarily by printed music. That's how he memorises best - note the word memorises. He definitely doesn't robotically mimic the dots once he's memorised, but puts the dots away, takes off running, does variations, all that. He knows his genre because he was born to it, but hearing him, you would assume he was an ear-learner until you found out otherwise.

[Mr Ed]

I just want to make clear that I know at least one trad musician who outside of the session learns primarily by printed music. That's how he memorises best - note the word memorises.

Memory...such a great thing. Wish I had more of it! There are times I have to refer to my book, but still being new to the whistle there's a lot to remember. Even getting the titles of the tunes memorized can be a challenge. But, I'm not at a session. At this point if there was one in the area I'd spend all the time listening. Too soon to contribute.

I did something recently that some would consider a no-no though. Some folks came from a nearby church and sang Christmas songs, and I grabbed a Finely Tuned Leaky Pipe™ in Bb after they were finished and played The Little Drummer Boy...using a cheat sheet! Not having a single Christmas tune memorized, and their reason for coming was that Mom is basically a shut-in, I felt the need to give a little something back in appreciation trumped the lack of memorization. Music is one of the best gifts to share, however humble that gift might be.

[gregwhistle]

I did something recently that some would consider a no-no though. Some folks came from a nearby church and sang Christmas songs, and I grabbed a Finely Tuned Leaky Pipe™ in Bb after they were finished and played The Little Drummer Boy...using a cheat sheet! Not having a single Christmas tune memorized, and their reason for coming was that Mom is basically a shut-in, I felt the need to give a little something back in appreciation trumped the lack of memorization. Music is one of the best gifts to share, however humble that gift might be.

Yep - life is a dynamic thing, and rarely is there only one right answer for everything ...

Sounds lovely, what you did

[Phillip Rolfes]

I'll chip in my two cents, for what it's worth. I've found that reading sheet music can be a handy tool on occasion, but certainly not the primary way to learn. I've used it particularly when trying to learn a passage by ear that either went by too quickly, or the notes weren't clear enough for me to catch. In such situations I've found pulling out a tune book rather helpful.

For people who think reading music isn't a "traditional" aspect of Irish music, I'd point out that collectors/collections of Irish music have been around since the advent of Irish music in its current form (ca. 18th Century). Even great musicians such as Leo Rowsome and Seamus Ennis collected volumes of music. Seamus Ennis himself traveled all throughout Ireland transcribing hundreds and hundreds of tunes by hand. And before him, of course, there was Cpt. Francis O'Niell and his famous collections.

The first collection of Irish music appeared in 1726 under the title A Collection of the Most Celebrated Irish Tunes. This would be a few decades the Uilleann pipes reached their current form. There were several other publications at that time as well. In 1796 Edward Bunting published his General Collection of the Ancient Music of Ireland.

So sheet music is certainly a "traditional" aspect of Irish music. It just isn't the normal medium for learning (nor the best in my opinion).

Phillip

[jim stone]

Reading music is fine with me, though I'm not much good at it, personally. Very slowly getting better, I think.

But I do think the situation is sometimes worse than it seems to have been represented.
I've been made unwelcome in Irish sessions because I didn't read music. Also chewed out
by the leader of one in a telephone conversation for that reason. ('You're an educated man.
Why don't you read music!') I'm not a very good musician,
but I'm a lot better than the people in this session, who are being held back by
reading music. In another session I went to, everybody was reading music--they had
been playing the tunes for years. I said to them: 'Well, I guess you know these
tunes by now. Why don't we just play them from memory?' They looked at me with
horror.....

Also, I believe the great, late Mike Rafferty made the decision not to learn to read music,
and I expect in his case it wasn't silly.