OT - seeking frequency values for Indonesian pelog/slendro s

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:43 pm

Hey guys -

I'm currently taking a world music class and we have to do a project at the end. I thought it'd be cool to make a whistle tuned to one of the scales used in gamelan music. These scales are called pelog (it seems to have seven notes) and slendro (seems to have five). Any help in finding some frequency values or other useful construction information on this stuff? (Google is reticent in giving up useful info.) I'm going to have to tune it by tuner rather than by ear since I have NO idea what it's supposed to sound like.

Edited because I can't count.

[ This Message was edited by: avanutria on 2003-01-08 15:31 ]

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:58 pm

Two old bits...
An approach may be be what's found in Debussy's so called "chinese" scale.
Typically, play only the black keys on the piano, but you can start from any other tone.
It is NOT chinese. It was inspired to Debussy precisely by listening to Gamelan orchestras. I think we can trust his ear in some way...

see f.i. Debussy's "Estampes".

fluter_d · Post by **fluter_d** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:59 pm

Hi Ava
I've taken classes in gamelan, and I have the frequency ranges for both scales in a pile of stuff. Unfortunately, you'll have to wait til next week for me to find it - I'm a bit bogged down with essays right now. Also, each individual gamelan will have its own scales, because each ensemble is tuned individually... so if you're doing this project on a specific gamelan, you're better off using a tuner there.
Good luck!
Deirdre

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:06 pm

I did a search on "gamelan scale" on Google and got some pages. I don't know if they're any use. Here's one

http://hem.netlink.se/~sbe29751/pelog_main.htm

TomB · Post by **TomB** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:07 pm

Not certain if this will help, but..

http://www.ircam.fr/anasyn/peeters/GAMELAN/tuning.html

or;

http://hem.netlink.se/~sbe29751/pelog%20main.htm

All the Best, Tom

Edited to add second site.
_________________
"A Whistler Pre-Beginner"

[ This Message was edited by: TomB on 2003-01-08 14:10 ]

fluter_d · Post by **fluter_d** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:14 pm

Just to clarify: pelog is a 7-note scale (notes numbered 1 through 7). Slendro is a five-note scale, but the notes are numbered 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6 (no 4 or 7). On the (Javanese) gamelan here in Cork, slendro notes approximate E, G, A, B, c# fingering on a whistle - but the intervals are not even (actual) tones or semitones (eg note 2 is actually in between F# and G). The pelog scale I will (hopefully) figure out at a later time and post. There's an electric guitar/bass player practicing riffs in the background... can't think straight...

Deirdre

[ This Message was edited by: fluter_d on 2003-01-08 14:31 ]

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:20 pm

pelog........slendro..........pelog...........slendro.......

A new mantra is born!

fluter_d · Post by **fluter_d** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 1:31 pm

You have no idea!
*must practice... gong expects it...*

Ava: Slendro is close to F#, G, A, c, c#, d, e fingering.
I can still get you ranges for each interval if you need them - let me know!
Deirdre
Note: all approximations are just that, and based entirely on the internal musical workings of my brain, rather than any scientific checking of gamelan (downstairs) against whistles (at home)... Please allow a margin of error!

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 2:33 pm

Hi Deirdre!

I'm doing this on my own, so no need to tune to anything else. I did read about each ensemble being tuned to its own group, which is kinda neat. Next week would be great, anything you could get to me would be most appreciated.

Everyone else, thanks! I'll check out those links when I get home from school.

WyoBadger · Post by **WyoBadger** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:16 pm

Beth!

You need to get in touch with a guy from the University of Wyoming Music Department named Rod Garnet.

You can find his e-mail address and probably phone number at UW's website--I'd advise calling him as opposed to e-mail. If you can't find his number, I think I've got it here somewhere... Tell him I sent you.

Besides being a VERY nice guy, he heads up UW's world music programs, and he's a Balinese gamelan expert (the driving force behind UW's own Gamelan Chandra Wyoga, would you believe).

He's also an AMAZING Irish flute and fife player (remember that CD I have of Colcannon playing Dusty Windowsill? That's him).

He's pretty busy, but I'm sure he'd be eager to help you out. Who else are you going to find with this kind of expertise in both areas?

Here's an interesting fact for you: Not only is each gamelan tuned to itself and only to itself, but the "twin" instruments in a full-sized gamelan are intentionally just a wee bit out of tune with each other. This makes uptight western classical musicians cringe, but it's what gives authentic gamelan music that distinctive "shimmery" sound.

This sounds like a VERY interesting project--keep me posted.
Tom

fluter_d · Post by **fluter_d** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 9:24 am

Hi again Ava - just had a thought (first one today

): there are bamboo end-blown instruments in a gamelan ensemble - as far as I know (I've never played them) they're fingered pretty much like whistles... I'll try to get some info on them when I search out my notes.
D

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 9:34 am

Hi Deirdre!

Yeah, there was a drawing in my book of an ensemble and the flute is what gave me the idea. They are called "suling" I believe (but I don't know if that's singular or plural)

WyoBadger · Post by **WyoBadger** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 2:53 pm

So, does this mean we need to petition Dale and Rich to start a Suling board?

I just read my previous post, and what I said about the instruments' "shimmery" sound...hmmm...I wonder if that's what the Generation makers are going for?

TW

Kim in Tulsa · Post by **Kim in Tulsa** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 3:06 pm

"What's the frequency, Kenneth??"

<img src="http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/moreek.gif">

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:16 pm

Well, using a comparison chart I found, a tuning program I have, and the "match the pitch" function of my metronome, I came up with the following values:

(I started on middle C for no good reason. Hey, it's all relative.)

Pelog Scale

1 - 262 Hz (this note is called "bem")
2 - 282 Hz ("gulu")
3 - 303 Hz ("dada")
4 - 362 Hz ("pelog")
5 - 384 Hz ("lima")
6 - 409 Hz ("nem")
7 - 451 Hz ("barang")
1' - 524 Hz ("bem")

Slendro Scale (note there is no number 4)

1 - 262 Hz
2 - 299 Hz
3 - 344 Hz
5 - 398 Hz
6 - 458 Hz
1' - 524 Hz

My next step is to acquire either some Meg Cs to mutilate or get some PVC tubing and find a mouthpiece that will fit on them. I'll have to model the dimesions after a C whistle until I get to the fingerholes section.