F natural on a D whistle

[mor.whistle]

Quick and dirty question:

is there ANY other way to obtain F natural on a D whistle other than:

Code: Select all

	X
	X
	X

	X
	>
	O

(> is a half covered hole)

Is there?

[kmarty]

I've found this http://fullbodyburn.com/wp-content/uplo ... /01-D1.jpg, but I'm afraid it will not help you.

[cai-shao-yang]

I've found this http://fullbodyburn.com/wp-content/uplo ... /01-D1.jpg, but I'm afraid it will not help you.

I thought that have to use half hole fingering. in D

[MTGuru]

In the first octave, the half hole is basically your only choice.

In the second octave, the fingering xxx oxx will work on some whistles, with some careful breath control. When it works it's usually a bit sharp and a bit veiled, but sometimes usable depending on the melody.

Don't be afraid to experiment with the half hole: sliding or rolling the B2 finger down, levering it up from the joint, half-covering the hole with the fingertip, etc. It's a fairly common note, and good whistlers learn several different ways of getting to and from the note.

[stanton135]

I agree with MTGuru. Second octave F using XXX OXX is nice if you can get it. When I was designing my homemade low D, I kept fiddling with hole sizes until XXX OXX played in tune. I was also aiming for good G#s and C naturals in both octaves.

Maybe it would be helpful if we could mention which commercially available whistles will give a usable second octave F natural with XXX OXX. I have a strong suspicion that a Susato SB D will. I only have the Eb, though. I'm also curious personally about certain makes of low D. Will a Burke respond well to XXX OXX? Will an MK?

[bogman]

You could always go with an fnat thumb hole. I have one on my Goldie and it's great. You could always experiment on a cheap whistle. The hole is about the size of the G hole and is positioned pretty much half on the bottom edge of the F# hole (on the thumb side obviously) Start with a small hole an increase the size till in tune. I'm certainly no whistle maker but maybe someone who is will be better help. The thumb always covers the Fnat hole - to play Fnat to play E with the thumb hole uncovered. Takes a wee bit getting used to but it's easy enough.

[Angel Shadowsong]

The are instances that it is not really half hole covered.

Based on experienced some whistle needs 3/4 hole covered or more than that but of course not fully covered to make an accurate note, you can test it on a chromatic tuner.

Otherwise it is a bit flat.

[MTGuru]

The are instances that it is not really half hole covered.

Yes ... Half hole does not mean literally 0.50 hole. It just means partial. The exact covering depends on your ear, not your measuring stick!

[Angel Shadowsong]

The are instances that it is not really half hole covered.

Yes ... Half hole does not mean literally 0.50 hole. It just means partial. The exact covering depends on your ear, not your measuring stick!

I just had an experience of a little muting of the volume when half-holing...is this normal?

[ecohawk]

Hmmm. MT is correct in that half-holing is the best choice. I have a fair collection of whistles and all of them require half holing in both the first and second octave to play the note position which is called Fnat on a D whistle, regardless of which key whistle is being played. I've also found that many whistle notes require adjustments in breath pressures to maintain consistent volume, including slight increases as one moves up the scale as well as half-hole and cross finger notes. But practice alone will train one to automatically (autonomically?) adjust to these idiosyncracies.

For the past six months I have been playing two whistles by excellent makers that have the thumb hole adaptation for the equivalent Cnat position. I have not tried an Fnat thumb hole model. I will likely sell these as I've made the decision that I prefer to half-hole since I'm used to it. It is faster for me and just as accurate considering the subtle vagaries of whistle pitch in general IMHO. YMMV.

None of my whistles including Burke, MK, Goldie etc respond well to the alternate second octave fingering for Fnat. At least not for me.

My humble opinion is to keep practicing and playing as much as possible. All of the best players that I know don't put much thought into whistle modifications from the original six holes as they own quite a few whistles and don't want to change back and forth. But that's a personal choice, just as yours will be.

Nothing will improve your playing, regardless of instrument, more than just playing as much as you can on a good quality whistle.

ecohawk

[MTGuru]

I just had an experience of a little muting of the volume when half-holing...is this normal?

Yes, it's normal. The quality of volume (and tone) you are describing is sometimes called "veiled" - because it sounds like there is a veil or cloth over the note, and it is not as loud or clear compared to the open hole notes. The reason is basically that a small hole in that position is not the ideal arrangement for an F natural vent opening. But that's OK ... You can compensate a bit with the breath. And the veiled F-nat is just one of the delightful quirks that gives the whistle its characteristic sound. It's a bug AND a feature!

[Angel Shadowsong]

And the veiled F-nat is just one of the delightful quirks that gives the whistle its characteristic sound. It's a bug AND a feature!

I love it it just the way it is. The "bug" makes it unique and make the instrument sing as though it has it's own life.

[mor.whistle]

Thank you guys, I didn't know about the XXX OXX combination, although, sadly, it doesn't even remotely work on any of my whistles (a walton and several pvc and aluminum home made ones), but it is good to know.

I was wondering about how to do an F natural because F together with C is the only sharp on D whistles and, when not playing from sheets made for whistles, F is usually F natural and so is C.
But with C I have no troubles both with >OO OOO and OXX OOO whilst with F I am struggling.
I am practicing a lot of half covered positions these days and up to certain speeds (quite low honestly) I can handle my own but when the tempo or notes durations requires fast finger movements I fail half covering the holes properly.
I know it is mostly a matter of exercise and exercise is what I'm doing but still I was hoping there was a solid alternative to the half hole as there is with C natural.

[Tor]

Well, there's always the C whistle alternative..

-Tor

[mor.whistle]

Well, there's always the C whistle alternative..

-Tor

You know, what you say is interesting because just yesterday I attempted to craft my first C low whistle (I got the mouthpiece length wrong, a few holes where kind of wacky and more important, a low whistle fingerholes' placement make my fingers hurt) and I was wondering if the F was supposed to be sharp or not.
But since I got the notes sort of all over the place from the start, I just thought I would save a question for a later time, maybe when I do a C whistle that is not low.

So, by your comment I assume that in a C whistle the F is to be natural. Is it so?