[Newbie] Progress after 6 month

[Angel Shadowsong]

Hi all.

I really envied many newbies who were bold to share their clips and vids.

Back then about last week of March 2012 when I got my first whistle, I did not attempt to try it at all.

I felt ashamed to share a music that is not done well. Other pro's may just hate the noise that I have created.


First of all, I had no book on whistle tutorials.
I had only availed free tutorials and free scores on the web for me to study. So how will I have the guts to share something that is not studied well?

Anyhow

My first whistle is a Feadog. I ordered 2 key of D's last February 28 2012 and came to me around end of March.

I was so excited to play Rebel Heart by the Corrs even when the whistle is not yet with me. If you will imagine it, me playing the song with an imaginary whistle so I can be at ease when I play with a real whistle.

To my disappointment, the Feadog was airy and shrilly, but I chose to be patient with it. I told myself how come Andrea Corr is using a cheap whistle and yet sound good. I still practice anyhow even when I am filled with disappointment.

I hated those who made the review specially the one who said this line I "Feadog Rocks straight of the box". Well to me, it didn't.

To my disappointment I read alot about tweaking. Then I tweaked mine, then destroyed it.
I was traumatized after the death of my whistle. I chose to keep the other so I may not destroy it.


I ordered Susato and Hoover cap after reading a lot of good reviews and poll results. And again I waited another month for my order to come to me and damn it was really frustrating.

I studied a new tone so I can forget the Trauma.

The Susato came first and I told my self, I will study Toss the feathers (TSF)

I will forget everything about Rebel Heart and Feadog for the mean time.

Here is my first Recording with Susato.
Please note that it is recorded using a laptop only. I have edited it removing a lot of air noise and dog barks, but basically no major editing. Natural Room reverb only with low quality microphone. It is in WAV format to avoid compression lost.

https://www.box.com/s/84d99b5e899287132615

I was not in particular to keys back then. I am so mesmerized with Andrea I cant focus on listening.
I tried to download free scores of TSF and it sounded different from what Andrea is playing.

After the second month I have improved on the Tone. Download below.
https://www.box.com/s/a83da3e385c82901d7a5

I was really frustrated with the Scores I have downloaded as there are notes that Andrea is hitting which is not on the score.
It is really hard to study the video because she is damn beautiful and my attention is divided. I had to pause and rewind the video over and over again to hear what fast notes she was hitting.

Then I realized it was not notes but ornaments...

Another thing when I listened so damn hard. I have isolated the Violin and the whistle in my head. I heard Sharon Corr correctly playing the score on violin with some appogiatura and acciatura. I thought at first Andrea committed a mistake on the whistle.

But after hearing her repeating the same mistake 6 times... o boy it is not a mistake it is a variation she made. Her personal interpretation. The E-A-A part becomes E-A-B-A and there are rolls and triplets that are damn so fast to catch. Thanks to the slowing software that my friend gave me, I caught it.


At this phase I can get many notes correct but my breath was not that good.

I always challenge my self to play this together with the video. It really felt that I am playing with the Band.
I felt ashamed of myself back then because I cannot catch up with them.

My friend once told me that Practice makes perfect. But nobody is perfect so why practice.

Damn downer.

I told myself that I will be better.

I can not find a time to practice everyday as I have a 8-5 hour work schedule and traveling is like 3 hours back and fourth.
I only had Saturdays and Sundays as my time for practice.

Other than that I have suffered from a lot of discouragement on the whistle.

"Stop, playing..it summons evil spirit" is damn music in my ears
specially when the dog Howls like a werewolf.


O well. I gave them the Snob and the shut ups.

I can not find my 3rd month recording.

Here is my 4th month

https://www.box.com/s/ad48ba5fd6e0fd8f0583

I was imitating the count and the Thank you line of Andrea back there hahahahha.


I have stopped recording for now. I need to buy a good book I guess. I bought a Soodlum's book second hand and find that some tunes are elementary... like old Mc Donald and amazing grace.

As of now I am studying Jenny's chicken Still figuring out why is it called Jenny's chicken.

It is fast and I find it challenging to find breath spots.

I recently purchased a low D and damn loving it. I am still in the cough stage on this, but I will make it. I will be good at this.


I really have to thank C&F. This community gave a lot of insights to my playing skills.



PS: Take it easy on the Criticism. I am not a pro yet.

If you are mean to me, I will just get my stuffy doll and my pins.
And look at your self in the mirror the next morning hahahahaah

[German Whistler]

first off all:
nice that u also start to post clips, its interesting for us and can help you a lot if u get enough feedback
(your big files may be to big for some people who havent a fast internetline, and i guess most cant hear that much as u can hear in those uncompüressed files)

second: wow u are fast!
i can hear that you was becomming better with the time, to be honest the first recording wasnt that nice to listen too for me, but it was the beginng of a procces so its all right
but my ears are not yet used to those fast tunes, i cant say if the last version is played good or not, it seems to be the right tunes but much to fast for me

anyway i think this song should be played with a band, with other instruments together, otherwise, just a whistle, it doesent sound so good to me
if i check this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEJa_VgpIAc it sounds great, if i imagin andrea playing alone, i`d may be begging her to play something else

i myself would like to learn this song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rhNgySB ... re=related
maybe it would sound better cause its not so fast but maybe it would be the same, much better with other instruments

and maybe its just me and my ears wich arent so good anymore after some diving accidents

[Nanohedron]

Good for you, to post clips of your playing! Not all of us would be so brave.

Here is my 4th month

https://www.box.com/s/ad48ba5fd6e0fd8f0583

Angel, there are a few basics you need to square away, and then people might be less inclined to say you're "summoning evil spirits".

1st) SLOW DOWN. You are playing way too fast too soon for your level. Learn to walk before you try to run. Learning to walk includes:

2nd) Take the time to develop your ITM ornaments correctly and on their own; you are, after all, playing an ITM tune and I presume you hope to play in that style. In that case, don't - I repeat, do not - be satisfied to simply approximate a vague idea of them; the ornaments are meant to be precisely executed, and precision and control are power. Well-done ornaments are not just la-di-da decor; they are part & parcel of the rhythmic integrity to a tune as well, which brings us to:

3rd) Keep your rhythm and count steady whatever speed you play at. Always imagine you are playing for dancers, and of course that obviously means they will need a steady, reliable beat. So don't have speed-uppy parts, and then slow-downy parts, and pause breaks that derail the tune's steady flow as if you've killed a car engine and now have to start it up again. If you have to take a breath, you must sneak it in there or time it so that the rhythm remains uninterrupted. Also: if trying to do ornaments is part of the problem, simply eliminate them for a time, until later. Even though I listed this third, more than anything else, steady rhythm really comes first. This IS dance music. Always remember that. You never know; you might have to play for dancers some day.

All these things apply to everyone. They take practice and patience. But they don't take forever.

As of now I am studying Jenny's chicken Still figuring out why is it called Jenny's chicken.

You'll never really know that unless you can ask the composer, and since he or she is long gone and the tune is old, you'll need a psychic for that. The usual thing is pretty basic, though: generally such composers are inspired by what's around them. Played well, Jenny's Chickens does make me think quite a bit of how a pen of fussy hens might sound. But it's also called "The Flying Saucer". Figure that one out.

It's a hard tune at beginner level. Any setting of Toss the Feathers is, too. Not to say you shouldn't tackle them, but get your above three issues tackled first. This is not an option if you want to play well. In the meantime I think you're right in your guess that you should try easier tunes; those will be better help to you in getting your basics down.

It is fast and I find it challenging to find breath spots.

No, it's not fast, in any absolute sense. Either you have a recording of someone playing it fast, or you are making an assumption of how it "is" and should be, and are playing it too fast for your present level. All you have to do is slow it down, and then it's not fast any more. You have the controls, here. Play as slowly as you need to to nail it solid, and then try increasing the (steady!) pace. When your speed makes you stumble, back off a bit and play at a lesser speed only, until you can do everything you can do slowly, faster. Remember: small steps. And there we are, back to my 1st point.

And remember that practicing something slowly is no shame: it's only preparation. Even the best do it.

[Peter Duggan]

Natural Room reverb only with low quality microphone. It is in WAV format to avoid compression lost.

(your big files may be to big for some people who havent a fast internetline, and i guess most cant hear that much as u can hear in those uncompüressed files)

Afraid GW is right and the .wav format will do nothing for you here except put folk off, on which note I'd have listened to all your clips if you'd posted them as sensible .ogg or .mp3 but (as things stand) only tried the most recent one...

Angel, there are a few basics you need to square away

And Nano has said pretty well exactly what I'd have said about that!

And remember that practicing something slowly is no shame: it's only preparation. Even the best do it.

Something I spend my life trying to get across to (mostly) disbelieving and/or impatient pupils. So just remember 'practice makes permanent' (not 'perfect')!

[Nanohedron]

So just remember 'practice makes permanent' (not 'perfect')!

This is really the correct idea. If in your impatience you practice bad habits, you make those habits ingrained and very, very hard to change. And I can say this with authority because I know it to be true from my own personal experience; my bad habits have set up shop and dogged me for years. Another way I've heard this idea put is, "Perfect practice makes perfect" (but what, really, is that? ). "Practice makes permanent" is, I think, the better way to say it, as it carries with it a warning.

[German Whistler]

this sounds logical, helpfull and right to me (its that what i couldnt know and why i wasnt able to sayb if it is good or bad, its to fast for me

but this also makes me worry
cause ...
well i am practising "johnny mickeys polka" right now, ok, much easier than "toss the feathers" maybe but i am a real beginner and maybe thats to fast and to early for me as "toss the feathers" was for angel?

i hope not, anyway its to late i nearly can play it at half speed already ;-.)
but i will go back to my easy practis-songs again
and i practise all easy tunes wich i already can every day

and hey angel wouldnt that be something for you too?
come and practise "katie bairdie" and "me anvez eur goulmik" and "johnny get your hair cut" and those tunes with us in the "beginners group"

[benhall.1]

"Practice makes permanent"

Hmmm ... a very good argument for never practicing. By which I mean the example (which we've all seen) of those people who simply cannot play a tune any other way than the exact and only way they've practiced it, and hence are a positive menace in sessions.

Maybe we should practice the bits that go to make up tunes - little scaley bits, bits of arpeggios, rolls, cuts, crans etc - and just play the tunes themselves.

Not that I'm advocating anything really ... just musing ...

[Nanohedron]

Maybe we should practice the bits that go to make up tunes - little scaley bits, bits of arpeggios, rolls, cuts, crans etc - and just play the tunes themselves.

Not that I'm advocating anything really ... just musing ...

No, actually I agree. Of course one has to learn the tune, but in terms of ITM the bits you mention are the basics, the contents of the very toolbox itself. They must be all there, sharp, cared for, and ready. You can't try to build a house without the right tools to hand and the knowledge to use them first. Not really. Might as well try to build a house with a spoon, otherwise. Have you ever read The Book of Five Rings? Musashi starts there, too, and employs the carpenter's toolbox analogy. Makes all the sense in the world. Basics - good, bad, or absent - rule every outcome; all the strategy in the world is just armchair theory without them.

So I'll repeat, Angel: learn tunes, by all means. But definitely throw yourself into studying and learning the basics of the style. You'll be very glad you did.

[Mr Ed]

If you convert those files to something smaller I'd be glad to listen to your tunes. 20+MB is a lot to download for one tune.

Nanohedron's list of basics is great advice for all of us newbies. I really need to work on the second one, getting the ornaments down on their own first. Strikes come naturally, but those cuts aren't easy. It's the opposite of what I've been doing on bass all these years. Moving the finger away from the instrument to accentuate the beat or separate notes is hard to wrap the mind around and get the fingers to do it. Gonna be spending some quality time with the metronome.

[benhall.1]

It's the opposite of what I've been doing on bass all these years. Moving the finger away from the instrument to accentuate the beat or separate notes is hard to wrap the mind around and get the fingers to do it.

Ah. Interesting. That's not how I think of it. I don't think it's how most trad players think of it. When I play a cut, I am trying to hammer down the finger doing the cutting. I don't really think of the moment before, when I lifted the finger off. I think the way to practice this is to play a note, deliberately lift the cutting finger, and then hammer it down, doing all of this in slow motion, as it were.

OTOH, most times I use cuts, I'm not using them to separate two repetitions of the same note - I mostly use them at the start of a note, so that the cutting finger is already raised, and only has to be hammered down.

You also need a little bit of breath emphasis at the moment when you play the cut. But you can add this once you've got the fingers doing the right thing.

[ggiles]

hummm ... I can say that I am impressed with the speed. Your fingers are quick ... but the rhythm is a mess.

I'm in the "lets hear it slower with out ornamentation" camp.

I've been playing for just over 6 months as well. I don't have any recording equipment at home other than my laptop and iPhone but I'll see if I can add some recordings to this topic for your comparison.
I've heard your tune played at session around here (I play guitar) a couple of times and never that fast.

Beginners Challenge !!!
I'll put up 2 tunes that I consider beginner you guys can challenge and compare yourselves to:

- Star of the county Down (there are many variations on this tune to play around with)

- Saddle the pony (first section "A part" is easy I find getting the flow in the second section "B part" is key in this song)

These tunes can be found all over the internet. So what do you beginners say? Up for a challenge?
The experienced players can provide us with their feed back, advice and some ribbing.

Maybe we should open this up to a new topic called the "beginners challenge list". Say 10 songs long, getting progressively harder from raw beginner to intermediate. As you get a song under your belt, drop a recording off, get feed back and determine if you are ready to move on to the next song.

[German Whistler]

i`d like that but am not sure if i am ready for this, maybe i am to much beginner (play for maybe 2 month)
i say; ill have a look at those tunes and decide then

hmmm, maybe every beginner who takes part of it could name a tune?
and there should be enough time to learn the tune
and should it be for real beginner or for little advanced like 6 month playing, cause we have 2 or 3 more "total beginers" (1 month players) here with us

[Tor]

It's the opposite of what I've been doing on bass all these years. Moving the finger away from the instrument to accentuate the beat or separate notes is hard to wrap the mind around and get the fingers to do it.

Ah. Interesting. That's not how I think of it. I don't think it's how most trad players think of it. When I play a cut, I am trying to hammer down the finger doing the cutting. I don't really think of the moment before, when I lifted the finger off. I think the way to practice this is to play a note, deliberately lift the cutting finger, and then hammer it down, doing all of this in slow motion, as it were.

I've just received the (new, as far as I know) book by Grey Larsen where he discusses this. The practice scheme he describes is to use a metronome and hammer down (to use your terminology) the finger right on the beat. Beginners like me will be slow (the cut is too long), but it should gradually become shorter..[until it doesn't register as a note, as nanohedron says in the post below] his point is that we should focus on ending the cut just on the beat [and then the 'start' comes closer and closer to the beat until there's no perceptible time span]:

Code: Select all

<lame ASCII graphics>
Going from:
___|----|___
        B(eat) 
to
____|---|___
        B(eat) 
and then to
______|-|___
        B(eat) 
</lame ASCII graphics>

as we improve (where the _| is the lift-off and the |_ is the hammer-down, and that is where the beat of the metronome is. Hopefully this will line up as intended, if you browser will show fixed-with fonts inside that 'code' section.
Don't know if that made any sense.. but the chapter in the book did! )

-Tor
Edited after Nanohedron's post below - that's what the book said as well.

[Nanohedron]

Just remember that in cuts or taps (and however you combine them), you want to make an articulating note not a note, but a clean "blip" effect. Its pitch should only register subliminally: IOW, as if not at all. That's the goal.

But it takes being relaxed, and that means practicing the little things so they come easier and easier and you can plug them in at will with hardly a thought. Rather than think of lifting off as a race against time in making an effort, maybe try getting a general bouncy feel into your fingers. To control this with ease at will you still have to learn command of a light touch, of course, but at least you're coming from a state of liveliness rather than of lugging a static condition into motion.

- that's what the book said as well.

I suspect no one with time in would have serious disagreements with this very general stuff I've brought up, although someone else might say it in their own way, and preferably better. It's basic, another part of the toolbox, and so it will be brought up as being essential. Even if your results doing it aren't as you would like just yet, all the same at least you have a signpost so you can know what you need to do.

[MTGuru]

I've just received the (new, as far as I know) book by Grey Larsen where he discusses this. The practice scheme he describes is to use a metronome and hammer down (to use your terminology) the finger right on the beat.

I suppose that explanation makes sense from a pedagogical point of view, as a very mechanical approach to correcting the beginner's tendency to do it wrong.

But really ... Pick your favorite whistle player. And I doubt that any of them spent time with a metronome to figure this out.

A better tool are the two things sticking out on either side of your head. And I don't mean your sideburns if you're having a bad hair day.

From descriptions of the basic ornaments, you know the mechanics. From listening to players/models/teachers you know how they should sound. Now reproduce them. When you get it right, your ears will tell you you've got it.

Students sometimes underestimate how quickly the fingers have to move to get the proper blip. It seems impossible, but it's not. And the problem with the graphic depiction above is that is suggests to me that it's OK to start out doing the wrong thing in order to move toward doing the right thing. That can lead you astray, I think. If you concentrate on hammering the fingers from the very start, the rest should follow.

Also, there are many ways of timing cuts, taps and rolls that are not exactly on the beats. If you rely on a metronome for more than the basic pattern, your playing may end up sounding ... metronomic. So caveat whistler.