Posture, bent left wrist, and numbness

[benhall.1]

Mind, that boxwood flute is very light.....

The light at the end of the carpal tunnel?

[Denny]

the very light!

[jemtheflute]

Don't carp!

[Denny]

better'n floundering

[Peter Duggan]

have turned the middle section on both my flutes away from my body, which also really helps by keeping the left wrist straighter.

Just spotted this comment and have to say I'm curious when I've been experimenting with turning the LH holes towards me (something I couldn't do without my big L3 offset!) for the same reason. So obviously it depends on your hold (and I can see why away might work with the flat-fingered/piper's grip), but aren't you (like me) using a more 'classic' hold?

[Jayhawk]

Peter - I am using a more classic grip. My LH ring finger isn't super long, and I was developing ulnar nerve pain when I had the holes for right and left hand aligned perfectly. I'd also turn the head joint in towards myself so that the embouchure hole was centered on the edge of the tone holes.

Now, I keep the RH tone holes in the same position, and use the RH tone holes to base how I turn my embouchure in a bit, but the LH section I roll out away from me so that the LH tone holes are centered on the far edge of the RH tone holes. That's hard to explain...and my camera really can't capture it either.

It's not a huge offset, but just enough to allow my fingers to lay on the LH tone holes with less stress on my left wrist, and it keeps my wrist straighter. It also puts my G# key and long Fnat key really close together (almost touching) which I find handy...with all the tone holes aligned, the G# key was difficult to hit.

Does that make sense? If you roll your head joint in a bit, and center it on the tone holes of the LH section...you should have some idea - just the same thing but rolling the LH section out away from me, too.

Eric

[Peter Duggan]

My LH ring finger isn't super long

Whereas mine (being my pinkie) is not only super short but dwarfed by a twisted monster of an L2!

Now, I keep the RH tone holes in the same position, and use the RH tone holes to base how I turn my embouchure in a bit

Yep, me too.

but the LH section I roll out away from me so that the LH tone holes are centered on the far edge of the RH tone holes.

But my LH holes (by which I really mean L1 and L2) are currently rotated 2mm towards me, though that's still both leaving my 9mm L3 offset 7mm the other way and maintaining the offset (which I absolutely need) within the hand.

with less stress on my left wrist, and it keeps my wrist straighter.

Which is the bit I can't quite see, though I'm guessing that my ultra-short L3 and associated offset are combining to pull my wrist in/down compared to 'normal' hands. To which I must add that I've been testing everything rigorously (still am) since I've got a keyed flute with RH G# key and one-piece body due to start building next week and need to be really, really sure I've got this right!

Does that make sense?

Everything except the wrist-straightening effect. But then perhaps our apparently contradictory solutions aren't really so contradictory at all when applied to our clearly different hands?

[Jayhawk]

Peter, I think your last sentence sums it up well.

One question....how high up is your left elbow when playing? My left elbow is almost touching my chest. Maybe that's a difference as well.

Eric

[MadmanWithaWhistle]

Thanks for posting this, everyone. Especially Jem, it's really helped me re-evaluate how I support the flute and improved my dexterity. The problem's I've been running into is that the headjoint of my flute is heavier than the body and tends to tilt away from my embouchure if my right hand pinky doesn't catch it. Unfortunately both for my whistle and my flute playing, I have rather short pinkies and am forced to splay my left thumb a little further out that I'd like to balance the flute better. While this is a bit of a strain on my thumb, it avoids the greater strain of having a "pinch hold" between my left thumb and forefinger.

[Peter Duggan]

One question....how high up is your left elbow when playing? My left elbow is almost touching my chest. Maybe that's a difference as well.

I'd say tidy but not touching in my case, and (believe it or not!) nearly posted a poll on this very question the other day...

Think I'd revert to L1 and L2 in line with the RH holes if literally pushing my elbow onto my body, but had concluded (after checking umpteen videos of the great and good) that nobody actually plays like that! But also realised this weekend that too much LH joint rotation simply leads to my elbow swinging out/up, which I don't want either, so now just trying to pin down my absolute optimum within that narrow (= surely still 'playable') 2mm band (on which note, yes, I have considered 1mm as another 'always playable' option!).

[jemtheflute]

No matter how you hold a flute, the L elbow should NOT be clamped against the chest - limits freedom of torso movement in free and controlled breathing! It also introduces unhelpful tensions in arms/hands/neck etc. and pulls the L hand too far down around/under flute tube, potentially contributing to a more cocked wrist or a tendency to pinch the flute - maybe even to numbness like that of the OP. Those things remain true to some extent even if it isn't positively clamped in, but just resting against the ribs (actually unlikely - most folk would have to hold it in to be in contact - relax and it'll bounce away a little - try it!), and regardless of anatomical individuality. See my comments on arm/elbow posture in my Flute Hold help sheet (now updated to include this point). Loose rule of thumb (! ), if your arms are comfortably relaxed in a classical flute-hold-posture, you should be able to fit your R fist between your L elbow and your lowest ribs, and that should not involve either holding the elbow in forcibly nor making an effort to hold it up/away. Holding the elbow farther out/up would take effort - and it probably has to go there to some degree for a L hand "pipers' hold" or for Rob's "Irish hold".

[Peter Duggan]

Loose rule of thumb (! ), if your arms are comfortably relaxed in a classical flute-hold-posture, you should be able to fit your R fist between your L elbow and your lowest ribs

Aye, that's about what I've got (was thinking apple/orange, tennis ball or fist, but the fist's easily the handiest for checking!).

[Jayhawk]

No worries Jem...no clamped elbows here. My elbow is just close to my chest. In contrast, I've seen some folks play with their elbow sticking quite far up and out to facilitate a piperish grip, which I don't do.

Eric

[Ronnie]

I hold the flute in a classical way. My left wrist is bent in angle simple because I have long arms. I couldn't ever keep it straight in one line I feel happy with that for the moment.

[cunparis]

To update the thread,

I adjusted some things with my desk at work (raised my monitors, sit up straight, etc.) and saw an improvement and the weird numbness sensation in my left hand has gotten much better. I've noticed it seems to come towards the end of the day at work. So I think it's my typing that causes it and not the flute.

So I started adding flute back into my practice. Just 10-15 minutes and then switch to whistle. and I didn't notice any ill effects. So I think the flute is fine, in moderation and i'll continue increasing the time I spend on flute. I've worked on keeping a relaxed grip and letting the 3 pt lever hold it up instead of my grip.

Thanks everyone for the feedback, it's greatly appreciated.