Conical or cylindrical bore?

[kokopelli]

I've been slowly convincing myself to put down the money for a wooden flute (albeit one on the lower end of pricing) and now I feel like I'm almost ready to go for it. I've been looking at the options out there and they are quite staggering. If I didn't have a price limit I wouldn't even know where to begin. But the one thing I'm really wondering about right now is the bore. What difference does a cylindrical or a tapered bore make on the flute? Does it affect the tone? The volume? The evenness of the octaves? The responsiveness? And which one is more traditional in Irish music? I know that there are many other factors that affect how a flute plays, maybe more than the bore does. Does the bore even make a difference relative to the differences that come from other factors?

I'll probably have more questions here in the next month or so as I try to come to a decision.

[Viking of Kiev]

You should read this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90136

Here Calum Stewart makes a practical comparison of the two types of bores - there is an audible difference.

[Feadoggie]

Here Calum Stewart makes a practical comparison of the two types of bores - there is an audible difference.

Let's keep in mind that the flute Calum Stewart is referring to is a Rudall Carte with a Boehm taper head and not a typical lower priced cylindrical bore simple system flute. Big difference.

But I am not sure what Kokopelli has in mind either as far as budget and wooden cylindrical flute choices.

Does the bore even make a difference relative to the differences that come from other factors?

Yes, it makes a big difference. You can read through all the archived posts on this topic if you like.

In my mind there is no reason to go with a cylindrical bore flute unless you feel the need to start at the very bottom of the cost ladder. The entry level flutes being offered by Casey Burns, Dave Copley, Gary Somers and others are a very good starting point.

If you can't start there, go for a Tipple with the wedge and lip plate.

Wood is not the most important characteristic in my mind. But that's just my opinion. I can certainly understand the attraction of timber.

Hope that helps.

Feadoggie

[an seanduine]

Have you any experience with transverse flutes? Or even any end blown flutes? What I'm getting at, is will you be spending your effort at mastering the basics of sound and tone production? Or are you already experienced through playing Boehm or bamboo flutes?
The gateway drug is of course Tin Whistle, but the initial costs are low, and any initial dissatisfaction with performance of your first instrument are easily and cheaply remedied. This is not so much the case with sideblown flutes. My advice is pretty much based on your available budget. Tipples are an excellent value proposition and good introduction. Feadoggie's advice is good. But I would add, unlike the whistle, with the flute, you are the MAJOR part of the instrument. What you make of yourself and your embouchure are the most important elements of your flute playing. With that thought in mind, I would go with the Somers or Walt Sweet or Copley flutes. I'm sure there are others to be considered, but my point is look forward to what you want to become.
YMMV

Bob

[kokopelli]

I've already got the basics of playing down pretty well from flutes made of PVC. I've been mostly considering the entry-level Casey Burns or Ralph Sweet flutes, but today I stumbled across David Angus, who has fairly low priced offerings in both cylindrical and tapered bores. A quick search revealed that his fifes seem well-esteemed so I thought maybe his flutes might be a good bargain. But that led to the deeper question of why he would offer the two bore options and what the difference is.

As far as budget goes, I'd say I definitely need to keep it under $500. Less is better, but at the same time I don't want to compromise quality for cost. I don't see my flute career leading to any sort of professional playing so I don't need anything top of the line. I just want a flute that I can enjoy playing and that will be close enough to in tune that I could play with a small group every now and then. And I want it to be made of wood.

[Feadoggie]

Ok! You can get a lot of flute for $500. Wood might be tough at that limit though.

The Burns Folk Flute is the obvious choice to me. But the Sweet flutes can be nice (I've had a couple over the years).

If you can do with a polymer model, Somers, Copely and the Walt Sweet Shannon would be tried and true choices. These flutes are good enough to give you a lifetime of learning, playing and growing. There are others as well.

D.angus has been doing business on eBay for a long time. You don't hear much about his D flutes here. I'll offer the observation that sometimes silence speaks loudly. Maybe someone else here has one and can offer a more objective view of them.

Feadoggie

[Steve Bliven]

And I have to put in a vote for delrin (or similar materials). At the price point you submit, I doubt you'll hear a great difference in sound between wood and delrin—and the latter has the advantage of easier maintenance. Play it, put it down, leave it until you play again. From time to time wash it out under a faucet, let it dry and play it. No oiling, obsessing about maintaining a constant humidity, cracking, tweaking the tenon threads/cork, etc. that you may have with a wood flute.

They're just simpler and sound good (again, at the price you mention).

That's my unsolicited opinion....

Best wishes.

Steve

[kokopelli]

I've reconsidered what I really want in a flute and what I want to use it for and I changed my mind about it needing to be wood. I would rather have an instrument that I feel comfortable taking with me anywhere I may go, and I feel like I wouldn't want to do that with a wood flute. I'd be too worried about it getting bumped and broken. So I've expanded my options.

Looking at delrin and other such materials, I seem to have come to the Dixon DX030. It comes apart into three pieces for easy travel and has a conical bore. It's within my comfortable price range, and it also looks pretty good. Does anybody have experience with this flute? I'm open to other suggestions in a similar price range as well.

[jemtheflute]

The Dixon is pleasant enough but rather quiet and stuffy. There are more responsive and IMO much better polymer options at comparable prices out there.

[Steve Bliven]

Looking at delrin and other such materials, I seem to have come to the Dixon DX030. It comes apart into three pieces for easy travel and has a conical bore. It's within my comfortable price range, and it also looks pretty good. Does anybody have experience with this flute? I'm open to other suggestions in a similar price range as well.

I'd strongly suggest looking at the Walt Sweet's delrin Shannon. Very good sound and an inexpensive price relative to others. At s somewhat higher price, check Copley. Them's my initial thoughts.

Best wishes.

Steve

[tin tin]

Right--the Dixon isn't in the same league as some of the others mentioned. I can attest to the quality of Copley flutes, and I'd give consideration to Rob Forbes' work, too. I've had a go at one, and it was very nice. http://forbesflutes.com/

[Feadoggie]

I seem to have come to the Dixon DX030. It comes apart into three pieces for easy travel and has a conical bore. It's within my comfortable price range, and it also looks pretty good. Does anybody have experience with this flute? I'm open to other suggestions in a similar price range as well.

I have owned three of that Dixon flute model. I still have two, one with a tuning slide made by Jon Cornia.

The Dixon three piece flute is a good flute for a beginner. That's one of the reasons why I own them. I've lent them to beginners until they decide on a flute of their own to buy. The Dixon has small holes and very comfortable spacing. That's good for small hands. It is a quiet flute but capable of a good strong tone if you are focused enough. It isn't a honker. It has a smallish embouchure hole and that makes learning lip control a bit harder initially than on some other starter flutes. But if you can generate a clean, strong, dark tone on the Dixon then you can play any flute out there. I think it is worth considering if you can find one at a good price.

The Dixon is however a flute that you will likely outgrow if you stick with the flute.

That said I have a bunch of other flutes that cost just a little more but are better flutes all around. The Copley three-piece delrin flute is a very good flute, IMO. It's a real bargain in my book. I have two of Dave's flutes with the silver rings, slides and the long foot, but really, the three piece model is a real hoot to play with nothing missing in the power and dynamics departments. The Forbes and Somers flutes are big bang for the bucks as well. So if you are looking for making a purchase for the long haul I'd suggest one of these three.

Feadoggie

[kkrell]

My opinion:

Delrin: Copley, Forbes or Somers
Wood: Casey Burns

If it were me at your price level, I'd buy the Copley, and keep it as a maintenance-free hard duty 2nd flute and eventually upgraded. If your 1st flute must be wood, then the Casey Burns Folk Flutes are exceptional players at a great value.

[kokopelli]

There's a whole world of polymer flutes that I was unaware of. I think my current top choices are the Shannon or Somers.

[kkrell]

What criteria have you chosen to now apply - Price? Maker reputation, reviews, or the rep. of those making recommendations? Similarity in manufacture to their wood flute models? Sound clips? Appearance?

There's a whole world of polymer flutes that I was unaware of. I think my current top choices are the Shannon or Somers.