GHP Chanter Whistle

[hans]

I've made my first chanter whistle, on request of a musician in Colorado, who plays Highland bagpipes and wanted a whistle playing in the same key with similar fingering than the GHP chanter. He received the whistle and is happy with it, so I though I share this.

The whistle is in the key of Bb Mixolydian, with additional low seventh ('Ab' below Bb) and eight finger holes including thumb hole for first octave Bb, as the GHP chanter (a scale of Ab Bb C D Eb F G Ab Bb, nominally in chanter notation called G A B C D E F G A [where sharps of C and F are implied]) . Fingering is half-open, as the chanter, so the fifth, sixth, seventh and octave note need R1, R2 and R3 closed. The idea is that you can play your pipe tunes the same way on the whistle as on the chanter. I am not a piper, and I am not fluent in this way of fingering, so I did not record a sample. But the tone of the whistle is like my standard Bb and A whistles. I voiced it a bit louder in the bottom octave, as the second octave most likely would not be used.

Bb chanter whistle with silver lip plate:

[MTGuru]

The whistle is in the key of Bb Mixolydian, with additional low seventh ('A' below Bb)

Would that be Ab below Bb?

[hans]

The whistle is in the key of Bb Mixolydian, with additional low seventh ('A' below Bb)

Would that be Ab below Bb?

Yes, thanks! Now corrected.

[Peter Duggan]

so the fifth, sixth, seventh and octave note need R1, R2 and R3 closed.

+ L3 for the octave 'A', although there's a less common alternative using L2 instead.

So how do these fingerings respond if you do overblow to the higher register?

[hans]

So how do these fingerings respond if you do overblow to the higher register?

Truthfully, I was not too concerned about overblown notes, I was more concerned getting the low octave right. Being a whistle, and keeping the head designed nearly the same as my standard A whistle, with just a slightly louder voice, second octave notes do respond in similar fashion. I think the upper second octave notes may got a little quirky and may have needed a bit less shading (lowering) by some right hand fingers off. So playing the upper octave would not be quite the same half-open chanter fingering as the bottom octave. But I am not sure about the details now.

[hans]

Update: I asked the new owner, and he says that the second octave sounds fine to him while he is using piper's fingering, with no problems, but that he will probably only use the lower octave.

[pancelticpiper]

I'm a highland piper (nearly 40 years) and a whistle player (over 35 years) and I've never understood why a piper thinks he needs a "chanter whistle". I guess it's laziness.

A whistle can't do what a chanter can do, and visa versa.

Highland pipe technique is based upon gracenotes which don't work on flutes or whistles. There are three reasons they don't work 1) the response time isn't quick enough 2) the gracenotes don't sound correctly 3) flutes and whistles aren't stable enough.

One example will suffice. The "go-to" gracenote, the standard working gracenote, on Highland pipes is done with the upperhand index finger. Due to the extreme stability of the Highland chanter, this gracenote pops out very clearly with pronounced chirp and does not destabilize the melody note it's played upon. But try it on the whistle:

xxx |xxx (the initial melody note, bottom D on a normal whistle)
oxx | xxx (the gracenote, lifting only the tophand index finger)
xxx | xxx (the initial melody note repeated)

The other problem with the Highland chanter is the half-closed fingering system

x| xxx | xxxx "low G" (G natural)
x | xxx | xxxo "low A"
x | xxx | xxoo B
x | xxx | xoox C#
x | xxx | ooox D
x | xxo | xxxo E
x | xoo | xxxo F#
x | ooo | xxxo "high G" (G natural)
o | oox | xxxo "high A"

The flattening and dulling effect of leaving down the index, middle, and ring fingers of the lower hand while lifting the ring finger of the upper hand means that hole 3 must be very large and preferably higher on the whistle. The fact that hole 1 must do G natural with all the upperhand fingers open means that it must be very small and preferably lower on the whistle. This brings holes 1, 2, and 3 closer together than is normal, quite cramped on a small whistle, though OK on a larger one.

So it's possible to move the holes around and get notes that will sound in the low octave. But the 2nd octave, I'm sure, is hopeless once you get beyond D (x xxx ooox) because E must be fingered x xxo xxxo. Try playing xxo xxx on a D whistle and it's not the normal sounding A that you get. Then try xoo xxx in the second octave and see if you get a good B.

Why don't these lazy pipers just learn to play whistle? It's not rocket science.

Oh BTW interesting that you have an offset hole! Highland chanters are made with all the holes inline and offset holes won't work with the Highland chanter grip. So your guy must not be gripping the whistle as he does the chanter, or else he's playing the Highland chanter with a strange grip.

Here's a video where a guy clearly shows the standard Highland chanter grip. Note that if the lowest hole (hole 7) were offset it could not be sealed or reached by the little finger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymxz6ve5SZ0

[hans]

Yes, of course a whistle is very different to a chanter. The hole layout reflects some of this. Left hand holes are indeed close together, but work fine on a Bb chanter whistle. The L2 and L3 holes are relatively large, to give strong enough notes even with R1, R2 and R3 down.

Right hand holes are stretched, especially the lowest, pinky, hole. Because of this stretch I needed to offset it a bit, I found, in order that it would be playable with piper's grip. No other grip works, and all holes inline and piper's grip did not work for me, because of the added stretch. When you have more stretch, you need to rotate the hole position a little.

The whistle could be made with standard "open fingering" in mind, left hand holes moved down a bit, and L2 and L3 a bit smaller, as on a standard whistle.

As to the reasons why a piper wants a whistle which can be played with somewhat similar fingerings than a chanter: I leave that to him. But I don't think it has to do with laziness to learn the whistle, as he plays other, normal whistles as well.

[Kypfer]

As to the reasons why a piper wants a whistle which can be played with somewhat similar fingerings than a chanter: I leave that to him.

... I'd like to have a chanter that fingers like a whistle - simply so I wouldn't have to use a different set of fingerings for tunes I already play. I'd guess the bagpipe player's requirements might be similar ... he'd like to play the tunes he knows in a manner he's familiar with, but have them sound "different" ... like they're being played on a whistle

[hans]

As to the reasons why a piper wants a whistle which can be played with somewhat similar fingerings than a chanter: I leave that to him.

... I'd like to have a chanter that fingers like a whistle - simply so I wouldn't have to use a different set of fingerings for tunes I already play. I'd guess the bagpipe player's requirements might be similar ... he'd like to play the tunes he knows in a manner he's familiar with, but have them sound "different" ... like they're being played on a whistle

That's exactly how I understood it!

[pancelticpiper]

I'd like to have a chanter that fingers like a whistle

The Galician Gaita is fairly close, perhaps about as close as you're going to get with a traditional bagpipe.

The traditional or older style of fingering is, for the scale of D Major on a D chanter

x xxx xxxo (the tonic, D on a D chanter)
x xxx xxoo
x xxx xooo
x xxx ooxo (the ring finger put on as an anchor)
x xxo ooxo
x xoo ooxo
x ooo ooxo (C# on a D chanter) x oxo ooxo (C natural on a D chanter)
o xxx xxxo (high D on a D chanter)

The traditional key is C, the same as an Irish C whistle, but Gaitas are widely available in D, the same as a D Irish whistle, or in other words one octave higher than a D uilleann chanter.

The Gaita Gallega would be the easiest bagpipe, probably, for a whistle or flute player to learn. Though the fingering of the uilleann chanter isn't so different, being somewhat analogous to the fingering of the whistle.

[pancelticpiper]

Right hand holes are stretched, especially the lowest, pinky, hole. Because of this stretch I needed to offset it a bit, I found, in order that it would be playable with piper's grip.

To be clear, the grip that whistle players call the "piper's grip" is not the same as the lower-hand grip used on the Highland chanter.

If using the Highland grip, Hole 7 cannot be sealed if offset. It must be in-line with the other holes. It's why all Highland chanters are made with all holes in-line.

Also, if Hole 7 were offset, the constantly required technique of playing the "birl" cannot be done.

The lower-hand grip on the Highland chanter is this: the index, middle, and ring fingers seal their respective holes with the middle joint of each finger. If you hold up your hand, palm facing you, with all the fingers exactly straight, you will notice that the end-joint pad of the little finger is exactly in line with the middle joint pads of the ring finger and index finger. This is how the Highland pipes are played, and it's common for teachers to draw dots on the pads of the fingers (or a line across the fingers) on the lower hand of a beginner, to help him keep his hand properly positioned.

The "piper's grip" that I use on the Low Whistle is quite different, with the end-joint pad of the ring finger being used (as opposed to the middle-joint pad as is done on the Highland pipes). If doing the Low Whistle player's so-called "piper's grip", yes, I would need Hole 7 to be offset in order to reach it. But if using the Highland piper's lower-hand grip an offset Hole 7 simply could not be reached, or sealed, by the little finger. The Burke rotating joint would be great, so that whistle players could offset Hole 7 and Highland pipers could get it in line.

Here's a great story, from another forum, of a guy telling how he got his first introduction to playing the Highland pipes in San Francisco back in the 1960s

My folks did some research and then we drove 170 miles and I went into a bar (at ten or so) in San Francisco.

There were big men (to a ten year old anyway) playing pipes in the bar in the back, and one came out and addressed me. I was spellbound, music, accents, everything I didn't have in my small town. There was a short interview, and the kilted fellow wandered into a small room near the front and then reappeared. In one hand was a Lawrie practice chanter. He handed it to me, and mooshed my fingers onto the chanter.

Then there was a stern admonishment, "There, that's right, don't you move a muscle." and one meaty hand came up and pointed a stern finger at my face. So I didn't move.


Without warning he drew a line down my fingers with a permanent marker. He told me to keep the line straight while I practiced, and that by the time it had worn off, I'd have that part right.

And that's how I met Donald Shaw Ramsey, once, very long ago.

[Peter Duggan]

Also, if Hole 7 were offset, the constantly required technique of playing the "birl" cannot be done.

This, Hans, being why I'd asked on your FB page 'whether the offset R4 hole was a customer request and how that works with birls?'

[hans]

If using the Highland grip, Hole 7 cannot be sealed if offset. It must be in-line with the other holes. It's why all Highland chanters are made with all holes in-line.

Probably true for pipe chanters, but not for the chanter whistle I designed. As I said, the R3-R4 distance is greater on this whistle than on a chanter, and a small offset for R4 makes this stretch more comfortable. This is with right hand piper's grip ("Highland piper's grip" as you describe it). And yes, piper's grip on a six hole whistle is not the same as piper's grip on a seven hole whistle (or eight hole whistle). I have tried various possibilities for the hole locations, believe me, I am not talking from a theoretical POV.

Also, if Hole 7 were offset, the constantly required technique of playing the "birl" cannot be done.

Not true. I don't understand how you can dismiss an offset R4 hole so categorically for this special whistle design, without having actually tried it.

[Kypfer]

Kypfer wrote:
I'd like to have a chanter that fingers like a whistle

pancelticpiper replied:
The Galician Gaita is fairly close, perhaps about as close as you're going to get with a traditional bagpipe.

Thank you ... I'll look into that