Modal tunes with chromatic notes – Irish flute or traverso?

[MarkvN]

I have starters question – but then, maybe not.

After having played folk music on the concertina for several years, I want to try my luck with the flute. The question that I want to pose to you – at the end of the following winding introduction – is: what sort of instrument will best fit the repertoire of modal folk tunes with chromatic notes that I want to play?

Recently I posted on this forum a link to several popular Dutch folk tune collections from the 18th century (such as the Oude en Nieuwe Hollandsche Boerenliedjes en Contredansen, and the Amsterdamse Schouburgh, for dots see http://www.lusthof-der-muziek.blogspot.com). In their titles, these old collections often mention the ‘fluit’ (e.g. either recorder or flute) as one of the intended instruments. Keyless and one-keyed traverso flutes were very popular in Amsterdam at the time, but...

a very substantial part of the tunes is in a dorian mode (Ddor, Gdor) and uses a mixture of naturals, sharps and flats. E.g. in D dorian (no accidentals in the signature) it is common to encounter both C and C#, both B and Bb. In Gdor (one flat in the signature, as in F major) it’s both B and Bb, both F and F#, both E and Eb, etcetera. I’m specifically interested in exploring this modal repertoire, and I’m not sure what type of flute will suit my needs.

My limited flute experience so far is with a plastic Yamaha fife in C. I’m in for a better instrument, and I’d much prefer a keyless or one-keyed flute over a many-keyed one. I’m sure that my taste for the subtleties of the flute sound is far from fully developed, so I want to start on a relatively cheap instrument and keep my choice for a more expensive one open. I’ve been looking at a practice flute by Hammy Hamilton, a Somers aluminium flute, and a Bernolin baroque traverso in delrin. (I should add that I do want an instrument in A=440.)

So, here’s my question: who has experience with both ‘Irish’ flutes and traversos and can tell me how suitable they’ll be for the repertoire that I want to play, e.g. all those dorian tunes with their chromatic notes? Any characteristics in a flute that should I look out for that would make it especially suitable? Any unexpected limitations that I would encounter with the Hamilton, Somers or Bernolin?

Or were those 18th century publishers cheating and are keyless or one-keyed flutes not very well suited for this repertoire after all? Or... am I being overly concerned and is everything possible?
Thanks a lot,
Mark

[FascinatedWanderer]

If you're not willing to have many keys a so called 'Irish flute' will not be suitable for this at all.

[Mr.Gumby]

It depends on how you want to approach the music. The 19/20th century model of the flute as used for Irish music possibly doesn't fit the aesthetic of the period repertoire very well. It will be, in it's keyed version, well able to play (the majority of) the tunes in those collections however if you aren't looking for period style performance. The traverso will, as far as I know, allow you more cross fingerings to play in the keys required.

[chas]

A followup to the last post: As he said, the one-key traverso would be the period-appropriate instrument, and would yield all the notes you want. (The F/F# separation on many instruments is not that much, you need to learn some lip gymnastics to get the pitch of the Fnatural low enough or the F# high enough.) Given that you're wanting an instrument at A440, does that mean you'll be playing with an ensemble? If so, you need to think about what kind of sound you want. If there are loud instruments, you might need the extra volume that an Irish/romantic/modern flute has, rather than the delicate sound of the traverso. The Bflat and Fnat are easy to half-hole. The only note that's really difficult to access by half-holing or cross-fingering is the Eflat. This is easier to access on cylindrical flutes like Hammy's practice flute.

You might also consider the Aulos matte-black traverso. It actually has pretty good volume, excellent sound and playability, plus the F/F# separation is a bit more than most traversi.

[MarkvN]

Thanks a lot for the helpfull advice so far. I do realize that I may have to compromise somewhere, because of my conflicting wishes.

Yes, I do want to play together with other instruments; not ‘ensemble’ in the classical sense, more session-wise. Playing this repertoire means straddling the boundary between folk and art music (or being stuck in between). But I want to come down decidedly on the folky site; the music should have enough punch and energy, it doesn’t have to be highly sophisticated. However, the deep, woody Irish sound, much as I like it, may be too strong a brand of its own; I do not want to end up sounding like a wannabe-but-never-will-be-Irish-folky (nor indeed would that do justice to the music).

So in all, it would seem logical to choose a traverso. I do not mind so much that I will not be heard all the time: playing the concertina, which is small, and in your lapp, and projecting the sound sideways, I’m used to hardly hearing myself in a session (which is rather unsatisfactory) – but it means that anything will be an improvement. However, I do have concerns that on a traverso, if it has a more limited dynamic range, it will be difficult to achieve the rhythmic punch and liveliness that I’m after.

The black-matte Aulos traverso seems to have been discontinued; is there a difference with the shiny one? I’ve searched around, but couldn’t find a decent sound recording.

I was quite impressed by the recordings of the resin traversos on the Bernolin website. They are not so much more expensive than the Aulos. There is an A-440 copy after Delusse and one after Rottenburgh. (http://traversos-bernolin.com/?lang=en/ ; several sound samples provided on the bottom of the homepage, but not of the A-440 instruments) Any thoughts on the volume and the ease of playing the chromatic notes on either of these two?
Thanks!

[chas]

It sounds as though the traverso would fill your needs. Although not as loud as Irish flutes, they can be played with great dynamics. You'll never get the "puffy" sound of Harry Bradley, but they're quite versatile.

I just suggested the Aulos Matte Black flute because I used to have one and was quite impressed with it (I haven't played the glossy black flute, but have heard it's not nearly as nice). I'm sure the Bernolin, which is hand-made, will be as good or better.

[Tonehole]

Loudness is loudly overrated

I can't say I'm very fond of the Aulos (Grenser/Rottenburgh?) black copy. It was nowhere in the league of the Aulos Stanesby imitation ivory traverso which I really like.

One of the things which I've found with traversos, is that they do sound better at their designed native pitch; the Stanesby replica is at A=415Hz btw.

As for the Delusse - very few makers seem to produced one, like Bernolin. His Hotteterre looks very exciting and is not much more

The Delusse sounds similar to my ears, to the Beaulieu type by Luc Verhoeven - you might actually love some of his current flutes on sale - they are within your price range too. It is sweet and lithe, and a fairly quiet traverso compared to other traversos like the Rottenburghs. The Delusse traverso is probably not a good recommendation for a new player coming from a plastic fife: it plays lithe and sprightly with a French school out-turned embouchure away style, and you would probably find a standard Rottenburgh or Grenser far easier to manage. The embouchure is very circular, around 6-7mm for the pitch above, and it is very difficult for non-traverso players to get into! I love the Beaulieu traverso for its gentle nuanced playing, much like the Delusse, although I'm not so fond of resin anymore.

I'm really happy with my von Huene Grenser replica in boxwood at A=415Hz. This is very punchy and loud - maybe the boxwood, or something about von Huene, but it is an amazing traverso, with marine epoxy lining so it can be played without moisture issues like a cheaper resin flute but with the gloriously resonant boxwood sound.

A=440Hz traversos are just not exciting enough. They seem to play clinical range. Accompanying musicians just need to retune their pianos down to A=415Hz

For a first flute, the Aulos Stanesby is a great traverso, if you can live with the pitch. They will all play the kind of modal music in your link and the complete repertoire of van Eyck, with the exception of La Follie, which requires a duet player, unless you can play chords on your traverso

[tin tin]

Would this be an interesting compromise? http://www.flute-beaudin.com/
http://www.robertbigio.com/beaudin.htm

[MarkvN]

Thank you all for the insightful comments & suggestions. I still have some serious thinking to do...

Good to hear about the differences in embouchure. Like the distance between F and Fis on a particular instrument, that's the sort of information that is very hard to come by. If it's going to be a Bernolin, I was already leaning towards the Rottenburgh (over the Delusse), so that's one decision less to make...

The Von Huene Genser is a promising option: it has the choice of two centers, A440 and A415, which would solve one big dilemma. For the moment it's a bit pricey though.

The Beaudin has a very full, warm sound: nice, maybe a bit too nice for what I'm looking for.

The recordings of the flutes by Verhoeven don’t speak to me very much – maybe it’s the recordings, which may not do full justice to the flutes.

I read several very positive comments about the Aulos Stanesby jr; but on Youtube I can only find performances on a beautiful Stanesby jr copy by Rod Cameron, such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=strRz_kJt4k. It feels odd to choose an instrument that I’ve never heard, not even on a recording.

Surfing the web, I encountered yet another possibility, very different from all previous ones. At the end of the 16th century, a famous Dutch sailing expedition (Barentsz and Van Heemskerck) got stuck in the pole ice and had to survive the winter on an island, Nova Zembla. It’s the stuff of our history books. Several hundred years later, a flute was found. Replicas were made, first by a Dutchman, then by Boaz Berney. Paul Wåhlberg used it for a recording: http://www.preludeklassiekemuziek.nl/sp ... embla.html
Berney says that ‘the Barents flute ... is cylindrical, 65 cm long, with one blowhole and six finger holes. But what makes this flute remarkable is that the walls are extremely thin: 2,5 mm. This makes the flute very light, with a crisp, singing sound.’
The original flute can be seen here: https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/collectie/NG-NM-7692 .
I’m not at all sure whether I should consider this a serious alternative (not tuneable, no low C#), but as for provenance...
Thanks!
Mark

[Tonehole]

That's some fascinating geekiness about the polar trek. Many thanks for sharing

Any of the traversos you've mentioned, especially the cost point for some of the Verhoevens will blow your Yamaha fife away

Unfortunately flute makers aren't sound engineers - Beaudin and other makers have players to perform on theirs (most flute makers are great players) and great recordings. As far as I know, Verhoeven just records himself playing on his own computer. Others use digitised enhancements on their videos.

In any case, I found a traverso replica based on its characteristics with demo'g too. If you have a chance, the Early Music Festival is a great place to discover different traversos.

For a newcomer, the Palanca replica is superb: it has an oval transverse concert flute friendly aperture for the embouchure and is a loud traverso. Many makers, like the late Andreas Glatt; Frijdhof Aurin, Simon Polak, offer alternative tunings for some traversos. Some work away from the native pitch, but not usually by more than a semitone.

The Stanesby flute is an amazing traverso - its tone is very special, even with just the Aulos version. I'm afraid I've not seen much on youtube (limited bandwidth). Mostly, it's just traverso students who like these, and it's no great comparison hearing a student on a Stanesby resin traverso, versus Jed Wentz on an Aurin boxwood traverso