Chieftain V-4 low D whistle tour

[farmerjones]

Well, those of us on the tour will get a first hand account of what it can do. We'll have to wait and see!

[ecohawk]

Well, I've joined the tour for the V4 just out of curiosity. I have owned all the other low whistles Phil has made at one time or another (sold or traded them all way except for the Gold), and I have both a new MK (my third try) and a maple head/brass older Reyburn as shown in Phil's video. I agree with the general assessment that the MK tends to be loud and has a less than desirable bell note. Although my new one has a better bell note it's still not a Goldie or Burke in that respect. I'm keeping it though. I also agree that the maple head Reyburn is not as responsive as it could be yet offers a really nice bell note, although the new Reyburn's seem to be excellent according to those I've spoken to who are playing them now. I'll be in Ronaldo's shop in December so I'll have a first hand opportunity to play with a few and choose a really nice one hopefully.

However, I don't consider those playability issues to be weaknesses as much as idiosyncrasies. Every whistle I own has idiosyncrasies. So what? Yes, even my beloved brass head/silver body Sindt D has a couple of issues, though it is far and away my favorite (and I bought it when they were a bargain). Unless there are serious tuning or other issues that can't be corrected by breath or fingering, I find that the whistles I've kept all offer one or more benefits over the others, which makes them more interesting on suited particularly to certain tunes or styles. To me that's valuable.

So, I'll try Phil's V4 low D on the tour and provide the best review I can muster afterward. Let the tour begin!

ecohawk

[retired]

Well the whistles have arrived and I'll be sending them out on Monday to the first two members - there are so many people signed up that it's been decided to split the two so each member will only have to wait half as long. Phil has asked that you do not take the whistles apart - tuning them in the normal way- no problem. Please send the whistle along to the next member within 5 days after receiving it - As of now, the last member will be receiving it in about 3 month - thanks in advance for your cooperation - Enjoy.

[SKC]

Is the tour still open?

[retired]

You're in.

[pancelticpiper]

Well, I've joined the tour for the V4 just out of curiosity. I have owned all the other low whistles Phil has made at one time or another (sold or traded them all way except for the Gold), and I have both a new MK (my third try)... I agree with the general assessment that the MK tends to be loud and has a less than desirable bell note. Although my new one has a better bell note it's still not a Goldie or Burke in that respect.

Seems that you and I are on the same page with all this stuff.

I hauled out my seldom-played Burke Low D the other day and played it for a while, switching back and forth between it and my (fifth!) MK Low D.

I start to wonder if the seemingly wimpy bellnote of the MK is partially an illusion created because the neighboring notes, in particular low E, are so strong. This MK I'm playing now, a ratty beat-up one got from Ted up your way, has a slightly stronger bellnote and slightly sweeter high B than the other five I've owned, though not as powerful overall as the red one I had before, which had the strongest low range of any whistle I've ever played.

In comparing the MK to the Burke at length the weakness of the low range of the Burke really jumps out (save the bellnote).

I too really liked the Chieftan Gold I had. It had the best 2nd octave of any Low D I've played. But too heavy for me!

I'm very curious about the Chieftan V-4.

[Mr.Nate]

The new Chieftain V-4 arrived safely it Colorado last Wednesday.

Next stop is to Fiffen whistle in Fort Collins!

Some of my initial impressions about this whistle are that is has medium back pressure similar to a Goldie medium blower.

It has a good bell note that can be leaned into. Higher notes past the second octave G do require more push. It does need a steady and firm pressure that takes some getting use to. I found it difficult to play at first but I have gotten more comfortable playing the V4 after several days of practice.

Phil said that "you can use the upper register quite nicely without being piercing and breaking glass". I would have to agree there.

I found the finger spacing manageable but the R2 hole is almost 13mm so someone with thin fingers might have a difficult time covering the holes. I have small hands and didn't have any problems.

Even with the narrow wind way I didn't have any problems with clogging.

The mouthpiece is slender and comfortable to play.

Here are a few memorable quotes from Phil's video...

"it's like cream, it just flows beautifully...you can really under blow it." Like I said it does take a steady and firm pressure. It is not difficult, just different.

"It's absolutely effortless if you don't have a huge amount of puff." Phil is an experienced low whistle player and a great salesman! Your mileage may vary.

In comparison with the Optima I would say that the Optima has a bell note that is good but pops easily to the next octave. For me the Optima is easier to play and I like the tone better. The tone of the new V4 is a little fuzzy and muted with more air in the voice.

I'll send it off tomorrow to keep the momentum going on this tour.

Cheers,
Nate

[Beckett]

How did you find the 'scalloped holes' Nate ?

[ancientfifer]

The whistle arrived safely last night. thanks Mr. Nate!
I'll spend some more time with it over the next couple days and post a review this w/e. From the half hour or so I spent with it last night, I agree largely with Mr. Nate's initial review. I'll try to see if I might be able to offer some additional perspective. First impression is very positive.
More in a couple days!
Russ

[Beckett]

Try include some 'scalloping' comments ..

Yes

[Mr.Nate]

Beckett,

You asked "How did you find the 'scalloped holes' Nate ?"

I did take note of that feature when I watched the video. When I first got the whistle I didn't notice any perceivable difference visually or in how it played. I had to compare the V4 and my Optima to see the difference.

On comparison I noticed that the holes on the new V4 were slightly more rounded Mostly on the side to side edges.

Phil did take some time on the video to point out the new feature saying that it felt more broke in. He even went so far to say that it felt more "organic" or even "wooden" but I think it was a little over stated in his presentation.

IMHO the large holes on a low D are naturally easier to half hole. Personally I like a little edge on the hole so I can feel what I am doing. People with larger fingers may have a different opinion.

Cheers!
Nate

[ancientfifer]

REVIEW: CHIEFTAIN V4 SL

My Perspective:
I primarily play Hi-D whistle and flute (Rudall style currently; Pratten in past), but I am seriously considering purchasing a low-D whistle. So, I’m not really qualified to compare it to other low whistles, but might offer a perspective for others who are newer to the low whistle. My hands and reach are medium and fingers medium width. I’m offering my review with numeric ratings on a scale of 100, with brief descriptions of my impressions.

Craftsmanship of the Chieftain V4 SL: 100%
At first sight, this whistle is a beauty! The scalloped holes are immediately noticeable, followed by the sleek curved/rounded design of the head joint/fipple. The machined finished is even and finely done. All cut edges are smooth and “rounded” almost without flaw.

Design/Ergonomics: 75%
Overall, reach is not a problem for someone with medium to small hands. R2 to R3 is approximately 40-41 mm by my measurement, and pipers grip easily accommodates. The main issue is hole size, R2 specifically. As Mr. Nate stated, it is 13mm wide. Even though my right middle finger is approx. 20mm wide, the scalloping seems to make it a little harder to cover well consistently. The scalloping of the holes, while making the whistle probably the most “comfortable” whistle I’ve tried, like a worn flute or chanter, I found myself having to concentrate hard on sealing the notes. I found excessive tension fatigue in my right wrist came quickly when playing it. I don’t know if Phil will offset the L3 and R3 holes, but I think that would render it more ergonomic for my own personal use. Others more experienced on the low whistle and with a larger reach may find different results.

Overall Sound: 80%
I agree with Mr. Nate that the tone is breathy and medium in volume. I felt the low D was a little weak and not as rich as I would like (perhaps also due to the issues above). “Breathy”, “Mild”, and “Smooth as Silk” are good descriptors. I love the whistle for playing slow airs. It is expressive and the scalloping lends easily to very smooth bending a sliding note to note, giving it a very nice “smoky-dark” voice. However, a sharper edge on the holes might also lend to a slightly cleaner attack. The upper register is very sweet. “Chirping” when attacking notes is minimal and can be controlled easily. Fast reels/jigs are fine as well, though I still prefer the instrument for slows. I think it would get lost in a session generally, but for recording and personal enjoyment a no brainer.

Sound Clip is humbly submitted which I think supports where my review is coming from. The flaws are mostly in my playing, but I think you can easily hear where I was having trouble cleanly covering the holes. I really butchered the reel. In my defense, this was an honest first take. I hope subsequent reviewers might also post a clip or two to hear the range of possibilities.

Clip: https://soundcloud.com/russ-cole/sampli ... hieftain-v

Many thanks to Phil for making this instrument available and to Patrick for organizing the tour. Hope this review is helpful!

Next stop: Trill in Las Vegas!
Russ

[greenspiderweb]

Thanks for posting that clip and review, Russ (and Nate too!). I'm very impressed how well the V4 did on the fast reel (OK, well, come to think of it Phil did play it pretty fast in his video too)-and by the way, I think your delivery was pretty good-and certainly an accomplishment on any Low D whistle! The V4 didn't seem to choke at all on the reel, which to me means it's pretty responsive. I think the slow airs are harder to make sound good, but that's natural given the long tones and timing.

I'm also wondering if it's possible that some moisture was forming in the fipple when you were playing the air-some of the low notes didn't sound strong, and sometimes that's an indication that there is some clogging or blocking going on in the fipple. Regular blowing out is always a good idea, especially with metal whistles. Then again, recordings don't always capture some subtleties of the tone, and especially what the player hears. But thank you for it, and it at least gives some idea of how it sounds.

And Nate, I'm wondering if what Phil meant when he said it (the scalloping on the holes) felt more organic, or even wooden; some wooden flutes are made like this, with rounded edges-I had an old one by Hammy that was like that (even a Seery too)-and it felt and looked like it was played hard for a long time! So maybe that is the reference Phil meant, I don't know, but could be.

It will probably be another 3 months or so before I get to try it on the tour, so all I can do now is just look and listen, and try to be patient!

[ubizmo]

I hope some tour reviewers will check the intonation on a meter and tell us how the V4 does, since one of my main complaints about the V3 is its tendency to play flat. Granted, all-metal whistles need to be thoroughly warmed up first, but even when warmed up my V3 is still problematic when I'm playing with other musicians. I'm hoping the V4 is better in this respect.

One of the claims that Phil makes about the V4 is equally applicable to the V3. That is, you can play the 2nd octave relatively quietly, without shrillness, and even if you push it, it holds the non-shrill character. This is one of the things I like about the V3, in fact.

The added back pressure and lower air requirement mentioned by Phil in the video would be welcome. I hope somebody on the tour is able to do a direct comparison with the V3 on that aspect.

If, in fact, the intonation and air requirements are improved over the V3, I'll probably get a V4 at some point. I'm not sure how I'd feel about the scalloped tone holes, but I imagine I could get used to them. Like Mr Nate, I think I like a bit of edge to feel what's going on, but I don't think it's a big deal.

[trill]

Greetings all,

Here are my impressions of the Chieftain V4 currently on tour.

Voice: breathy
I would describe the voice as "breathy". In both octaves, there's a "rushing of air" sound that accompanies the tones. Some whistles (e.g. Hoover whitecaps) have almost no breath sound. Others (e.g. MK) have lots of breath sound. This Chieftain V4 has lots of breath-sound. The breathiness is more evident the higher you go. It's loudest at the top of the 2nd octave.

Sound: octave volume balance
I wish I had some measurements to back this up, but my impression is that this whistle has remarkably good volume-balance between the 1st and 2nd octaves. The 1st octave voice is plenty strong. The second octave notes are not shrill in any way. Certainly, the 2nd octave notes are louder than the 1st, but they seem much less so than other low-Ds.

Beak: rounded
The beak is rounded left-to-right. See photo.

I've not seen this shape in any other whistle, so, it's novel (at least to me). However, I had to really change my usual lip-to-beak arrangement. I usually "rest" a whistle's beak on my lips. With this whistle, that "rest" pose introduced more "breathiness" to the sound. To lessen the "breathiness", I had to hold the beak further in, and use my lips to cushion/protect the teeth. I really didn't like bumping the metal beak into my teeth.

Holes: large but scultped
The finger holes are not simply drilled into the tube. The outside edges are rounded. This seems to help with closing the larger holes. In fact, the bottom-middle hole (R2) is the largest I've ever seen. Large holes usually give me trouble. Much to my surprise, I was able to close it reliably with only a little practice. I attribute this to the sculpted shape.

Material: brushed aluminium
It's light. My kitchen scale reads 227 g. Aluminum is soft, so, there are a few little scrapes in the brushed finish that probably can be attributed to "tour wear+tear".

Joint
The joint is tight, but smooth and mobile when you apply pressure. It wont drift.

Serial Number
There's a serial number stamped into the tube. See photo.

Know all ye by these markings: this whistle has a pedigree !

In closing, I'd like to say that there's plenty to like about this whistle. The intonation seemed fine to me. Once I got the hang of the holes + figured out the beak, it was fun to play. The octave balance and sculpted finger holes are real standout features.

Many thanks to the maker (Phil Hardy, Kerrywhistles) and Retired for organizing the tour !

trill

p.s. I put in in the mail to pancelticpiper today.