Flute key pads falling out- what do I use to re-secure them?

[iamalaser]

Hey all,

One of the leather key pads fell out of one of my flute's metal keys yesterday. I wiggled the others to check if they were secure and another one fell out.

Does anyone know what kind of adhesive I ought to use to stick these back in and make sure they don't keep falling out?

I would prefer a 'home' solution... I thought about just using superglue, but thought that that might not be secure enough.

In case it matters, it is an 8-key M&E in some kind of polymer/ebonite (not sure which, I got it second-hand a few years ago)

[jemtheflute]

Agh. Thought I'd posted a reply.... Right, take 2:

DO NOT USE SUPERGLUE!

What is the original adhesive? Is it shellac (hard, crusty dark brown stuff), sealing wax (probably red or yellow), hot-melt glue (opaque, colourless, plastic/jelly-looking), or something else? Test by heating (see below) the empty key cup and watching what happens to the residue of the adhesive. If it is any of the re-meltable adhesives mentioned, proceed thus:

Pop the pad back into the key cup and hold the flute so it doesn't fall out when you hold the key open by its touch. Hold the touch down with a piece of cloth or a gloved finger and heat the cup with an electronics soldering iron or a flame from e.g. a fag-lighter. If you use a flame, be careful to hold things in such a way that you don't singe the pad's edges or risk scorching the flute body. (Hold it right and most of the waste heat will rise around/away from the flute safely enough provided you don't keep at it too long!) Once the adhesive is melted, let the key close and inspect things to make sure the pad is sitting neatly within the pad bed/seat and also the cup. Push it around with a probe (e,g, teaspoon handle) if needs be. Then press the key-cup down (cloth or glove again) until the glue/shellac sets. Check for leaks/ill-seating both visually and by doing a suck-test. Any problems, reheat and try again. This is what is called "floating a pad".

If a non-re-meltable glue was used, come back to us and describe....... You'll need to clean out the key cup (off the flute) and either get one of the meltable adhesives already mentioned or........ we'll cross that bridge if we come to it.

[iamalaser]

Hi Jem,

Taking a look at the leather pads and the key cups, I really can't tell what the adhesive is; its not really very visible. It definitely doesn't look like any of the things you described. Whatever it is, I doubt there is enough of it there to remelt for a new stick. Whatever it was, it was clear and they used very little of it.

Any ideas?

[an seanduine]

Perhaps a little more information might be in order. Do you know the maker of your flute? Can you say the type of key work it uses (that is block mounted or pin mounted)? You seem 'economy minded', but a little more info will help us to advise you.


Bob

[jemtheflute]

Mmmm. Just try heating up a key cup - see what happens. Could be hot melt glue used rather too abstemiously! If it doesn't go tacky/bubble up, it's something else.

Moving forward, something heat re-meltable is best so you can "float" the pads. If you have a hot glue gun, use tiny dabs of that. Otherwise the easiest option is probably to get a stick of sealing wax - from a stationer or easily found on eBay. Clean out all residues of old adhesive from the cup first and get what you can off the pad without starting to unmake it! The other alternative is to use a little PVA wood glue, but you can't "float" or refloat that and you have to tie or clamp the key down until it sets.

[iamalaser]

I'll be making a hardware store trip tomorrow to see if I can find some hot glue/sealing wax or something (also a lighter).

If I just leave the pads in the keys unsecured right now they look like they are snug but the notes don't play, so there must be a leak (the culprit keys are both of my F natural keys...). Will this floating procedure you speak of take care of this? Do I need to make sure the pad is in the same position rotation-wise as it was before it fell out? That may be difficult.

If I don't have a hot glue gun but can find a stick of the stuff, do you suppose I could just use the lighter to melt a bit of it into the key-cup?

Thanks for all the valuable advice

[jemtheflute]

If it were me, I'd forget the hot melt glue and go with the sealing wax. A gas-zapper lighter is handier than a fag-lighter, btw, and not much dearer.

Provided the outer surfaces of the pads are in good condition they'll be fine and no, you don't need to worry about orientation if you are using a heating and floating-in method. You will find that as you heat the back of the cup the pad will blow up as the trapped air in it expands, and this tends to remove old pressure grooves and softens the leather so it should readily take on a new impression of the hole edge.

[Tunborough]

A gas-zapper lighter is handier than a fag-lighter, btw, and not much dearer.

Canada/U.S. translation: "A BBQ lighter is handier than a cigarette lighter, BTW, and not much more expensive."

[Steve Bliven]

Just out of curiosity, I took Jem's phrase and, using Babylon, translated it into French, then German and then back to English. Final result was

"A gas television more easily is not larger user friendliness of the FAG must cigars, BTW and very many more expensive."

Best wishes.

Steve

[jemtheflute]

Thanks guys. I'm so glad we've got that cleared up.

[benhall.1]

Just out of interest, has anyone got the translation into UK English? Hmmm???

[jemtheflute]

Just out of interest, has anyone got the translation into UK English? Hmmm???

Like you'd understand anyway?

[jemtheflute]

This kind of gas-zapper: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Kitchen-Gas ... 1071460531

& sealing wax: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-5pcs-Wine-R ... 0379165081

Those are both off US eBay.com, but I didn't search thoroughly for inland-sourced supplies - these are from China/HK, so delivery might be slower than if you can (as you ought to be able to) source the same things stocked in-country at reasonable prices, assuming they're not stocked in shops local to you.

You can also find woodwind supplies stick shellac on eBay, but it is much dearer than sealing wax, so probably not worth getting unless you plan to start renovating flutes regularly.