Back D problem

[johnnyboi]

Hi guys. I'm new to uilleann piping and adjusting reeds etc and hoped to find a solution to my reed issue that has prevented me playing properly for so long now.

Basically, I have a sinking back D, which starts (with normal pressure) very sharp, but can be flattened with more pressure to the correct pitch. However, with only slightly more pressure again (the kind of pressure I use for high E, F etc) it instantly drops to a C-natural! This diagram sort of explains:


The sweet spot where the D is the correct pitch is so small that normal playing is virtually impossible, especially if the second octave is involved.

I've tried raising the bridle, seating the reed further in, and checking for leaks at the sides of the reed. Any suggestions? I don't think it can't simply be a dud reed: I had four of them made, by someone who works regularly with my maker (Adrian Jefferies), and they all do it.

[Tom_S]

It sounds like you've got two problems - 1) a sinking back D with too much pressure 2) a sharp back D - both of which could possibly be the reed(s). I'm a real novice myself, but if the bridle on my reed isn't adjusted properly I can get a sinking back D as well. One thing you could do is put a bit of tape over part of the hole, which should flatten the note. Doesn't fix the sinking issue, but it might be a stop-gap to help with the sharpness of the note.

[johnnyboi]

Hmm thanks Tom, you might be right... although the completely different note I get with more pressure again probably makes a third problem then!

[geoff wooff]

Just because you have four reeds that all have this unstable back D does not mean that it is not a Reed problem. Sounds like you have four duff reeds... however it is difficult to assess what the problem really is from a short description but it is most probable that your reeds are either:

too weak in the centre of the blade tips ( check this by looking into the end of the reed head and use thumb and first finger to gently press the blades shut. When the centre of the blades just touch the rest of the lip area must also be shut and 'air tight'.... if the centres touch but there is a gap each side , thus it looks like a figure of eight, then the blades have not been scraped properly and are too thin in the middle, a very very common problem).

If the scrape is too strong further away from the blade tips you will need too much pressure to play the lower notes and then you can over power the back D.

The' Reed Head Speed' could be wrong ( when you draw air through the reed with your mouth you get a note and the pitch of that note will be what I call the Reed Head Speed). I do not know what your reed head speed should be , consult your maker.

The Staple Eye could be too open ( this can give a weak back D).

Reeds not 'air tight' and/or not staunchly fitted to chanter.

[johnnyboi]

Hi Geoff, thanks so much for the considered response. I was ready to believe it was my lack of knowledge of adjustment rather than the reeds, which came from a reedmaker personally recommended by Adrian, but there's also the fact that conditions here in Australia compared to where the reeds were made (UK) vary a lot. I did rule out a weak blade tip center, and I'm sure the D is not being overpowered, since the other notes are still easy to play.. (since adjusting the bridle, almost too easy - bottom D sometimes breaks into the 2nd 8ve)

Pushing the reed in quite firmly helped the problem somewhat in the past, but it seems to have returned with a vengeance since then. Is it possible that large temperature variations can affect reeds like this? It's winter here and I realised the pipes were sitting open in a room which gets heated a fair bit some days. That's probably not good...

Will try the other options if all else fails, but given my lack of experience I was loathe to disassemble the reeds!

[geoff wooff]

Ah!
Now your latest description suggests that you have the reeds adjusted to play too lightly, perhaps ? This sort of "diagnosis by letter" is virtually impossible. You will, of course, have contacted the reedmaker but you would be best off to find an experienced piper that you can visit.

Your problems could be climatic but could also be from a simple breakdown in comunications. Think of it this way; you say the reeds are easy to blow .... but then you could have spent years playing the Highland Pipes using very strong reeds and are used to having your bag totally full at all times..... you could then ask me to try your pipes and find that I cannot blow them because the reeds are too hard, for me. Or vice versa.

Those reeds could have changed elevation during their journey out from UK.... and you might need to adjust them more radically than you have so far.... this is why you would be best to find another piper locally.

When I started playing I lived in Perth and the nearest piper I knew was Declan Affley in Sydney .... one day I packed the car, wife and baby too and headed for the East coast!!

Good luck,
Geoff.

PS: "chicken & egg"...... when you have a reed well adjusted and everything appears to be right with the world and your pipes, then is the moment to take out that chanter reed and suck test it. Use your mouth to draw air through the staple and listen carefully to the way the reed lips shut.. they should snap shut or bang together in a clear and sharply defined commencement of the vibration cycle. This shows that the head is well formed, balanced and that when the two blades come together they make an airtight seal. If the sound of the first closing is more muted, ill defined and not crisp then your reed is either not shutting evenly (blades of different strengths) or touching in the centre before the rest , or is not forming an airtight seal, or is leaking somewhere.

The next thing to note when suck testing is the pitch of the notes coming off the reed; drawing air into your mouth as you would draw liquid up a drinking straw, using your cheek muscles and keeping your throat closed... this should produce the Reed Head Speed which is a note that can relate to your chanter... for a Flat chanter this would normally want to be its A note or close to ( thus G for a C chanter etc)... for Concert Pitch chanters this note is often about G but your results may differ.

The final suck test is to open your throat and breath in through the reed ( this allows the reed to respond to a much greater cavity than just your mouth. What you want to hear with this test is lots of rattling and gurgling noises but no sudden high pitched squeeks. These very high whistling noises are an indication that the back part of the scrape is a little too strong or there is an imbalance between the two blades. With this test it is possible to manipulate the shape of your mouth to emulate different amounts of chanter length hanging off the lower end of your reed. A reed that shows plenty of ' rattling' character over a range of mouth shapes will most likely be tolerant across the whole range of the chanter.