Whistle fault or my fault

[Kvz2000]

Hi All,

I am a beginner re low D whistle playing and bought a relatively inexpensive one from Domnahl na Gruen Whistlecraft in Knoydart , but I find after paying for a few minutes that the whistle stops working due to Sylvia in the whistle, is this a fault in the design of the whistle or the way I am blowing the whistle? Also I am still unable to obtain all the notes in the higher octave.

Any advice welcome ,

Donald

[retired]

See viewtopic.php?f=1&t=97426 - this info should help re the clogging. Don't know the whistle - can't comment on the second octave. Good luck.

[whistlecollector]

I am a beginner re low D whistle playing and bought a relatively inexpensive one from Domnahl na Gruen Whistlecraft in Knoydart , but I find after paying for a few minutes that the whistle stops working due to Sylvia in the whistle, is this a fault in the design of the whistle or the way I am blowing the whistle? Also I am still unable to obtain all the notes in the higher octave.

Is "Sylvia" your pet ferret by any chance? I would first suggest extracting the poor creature from your whistle and it should work fine!

On the off chance you mean "saliva", i.e. SPIT, the usual way to unclog the windway is to gently put your fingertip over the window and give it a good blow. You'll hear a high pitched wheeze and the whistle should play nice and clear again. Until you clog it up with your spit again! If you're blowing so much spit through your whistle that it becomes unplayable very shortly, then I might suggest the problem is the player, not the whistle. (In general, a good craftsman / musician / whatever doesn't blame his tools. He owns responsibility.) So, no, the fault is not with the whistle. Mind you, I'm not saying the windway design doesn't lend itself to spit clogging, just that it's up to the musician to overcome those design parameters!

First thing to try, especially if the instrument is metal, is to let it warm up before playing it. Moisture in your breath will condense on cool metal and lead to clogging, even if you're not spitting through the instrument.

Then, another thing you might try, if you really are prone to excess spit, is to put some cotton wadding under your tongue and in your cheeks when you play. No, I'm not making that up! Flageolet players used to put cotton wadding in the wind chambers of their instruments to soak up spit -- same principle here. Of course, once they become soggy, you've got a whole new kind of fun extricating the soggy cotton wadding from your mouth! Or try tilting your head up when playing -- let the spit run back towards your throat. Like the dancing recorder guy here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9QQQ0CU3CE (Also some interesting fingerwork there.) You might also try tilting the whistle itself up. As a last resort, you might try a different whistle. As a *really last resort*, you might try switching to flute -- big ol' hole there and plenty of room for all kinds of spit!

Worst case scenario, if you really are blowing gallons of spit through your whistle is get yourself checked out -- sialorhrrea can be caused by a number of conditions and is also a side effect of some drugs.

As for playing the high notes, some of them can be very sensitive to how much you vent the "octave key" -- not just "half-holing", but perhaps "third or quarter or fifth holing" -- so try different amounts of ventage for finger no. 1. Some high notes will speak better by using the second octave key, which is found at finger no. 4. Same principles apply: you might try slightly venting that for certain notes. Other octave keys may present themselves as well. Much will depend on your particular whistle. I've never tried one of Domhnal's whistles, so have no idea what its playing characteristics are. I'm sure others can provide more specific guidance there as well!

Regards

[ytliek]

Welcome to the whistle forum.

I'll just suggest keep playing and give everything some time. You're new to whistling and its a new whistle. I was a ferocious drooler slobbering all over the moment I started playing. Over time the drooling has subsided, but, hasn't completely stopped. I now know the drooling was all me and the clogging was "partly" the whistle. So give it some time.

As mentioned already, you'll learn to blow out the moisture, use soapy solutions to rinse out your whistle, and I learned to eat some time before practicing with whistle which helped with so much drooling. YMMV.

BTW, I now drool mostly after the wood whistles get a mention.

Whistling ought to be fun... so make it so. Enjoy!

[Kvz2000]

Thanks guys ,

Lots of good advice there , predictive text catching me out again , I knew a Sylvia once but that's another story .

Cleaning out the siliva is not the issue it's the short time it takes to effect the sound, and you would not be able to play one tune without having to stop and empty it.

Would be ideal if it could get the chance to try a better quality one which I will try and do just to see if it makes any difference .

Thanks again
Donald

[whistlecollector]

Lots of good advice there , predictive text catching me out again , I knew a Sylvia once but that's another story.

Cleaning out the saliva is not the issue it's the short time it takes to effect the sound, and you would not be able to play one tune without having to stop and empty it.

Hm.

In part I still think this must be a function of how much spit you're pushing through the windway. Of course, the other factor at play here is how narrow / thin the windway itself is! Naturally, a windway with less cross-sectional area will clog faster than one with more area. Basic physics that. Or jommetry or somesuch.

Would be ideal if it could get the chance to try a better quality one which I will try and do just to see if it makes any difference.

My opinion only here, and as I said before, I don't know anything about these whistles -- but it does irk me just a tadge that you're going on about instrument quality. Unless the craftsman is here to discuss & defend his design parameters, materials, workmanship, etc., I just think this is a bit of a dead-end. I think you'll find that el-cheapo whistles often have less clogging problems than big name / high quality / expensive ones!

From my own experience, I can say that quality of instrument is definitely nòt the deciding factor here. I have right here in front of me three low whistles, none of which can be called low quality, as all seem to earn high marks from the Board of Assessors of the Chiff and Fipple Quality Assurance Bureau. In my experience, and given the amount of spit I can push through an instrument, the Overton (Bernard) clogs relatively easily for me -- but then again, it is a bloody aluminium cannon and does need to be warmed up quite a bit. I'm sure condensation is an issue there. I haven't had similar spit accumulation issues with either Copeland or Shaw. Perhaps more telling is the vast difference in windway cross-section. It looks like the Copeland windway is (apart from being curved, unlike the other two) about twice the height of the Overton and the Shaw is about thrice the height. v = l * w * h, so for the Shaw, that's a lot of volume to push spit through before it starts clogging.

If you have a mm ruler, or a micrometer, could you measure the cross-section of the windway (height as well as width)? We could at least compare relative sizes and perhaps determine if that is at issue. Then one solution might be to look for an instrument with a larger windway, if you can't alter the windway of your own whistle. In all honesty, spit is something we can't really control all that well, and it may well be that the na Gruen just isn't a good match for you if it has a small windway, just as I don't think the Overton is a good match for me (though not just for the clogging issue).

One other possibility: I do believe there is one (or more) whistles making the tour rounds of any Chiffer that wants to host it for a time and give it a try -- if it's a low whistle, maybe you could get on the list and give it a try? That might make for a good comparison!

Cheers

[ytliek]

I'm sticking with my original suggestion of just give everything some time. If you think the clogging is substantial, then perhaps contacting the whistlemaker may help. I wouldn't go bending or stretching anything on the whistle, especially the windway, without talking with the whistlemaker. Surely, any whistlemaker with any reputation would take a moment to suggest ways to help.

I'm not familiar with your particular whistle nor maker. Give it more time with practice.

[JoFo]

Some whistles seem to be more prone to clogging than others, Those with a narrow windway for instance. Those with a plastic fipple plug (Ian Lambe, Alba and others) are less likely to do so. A curved windway also helps, as on the MK and the Alba, for instance. I never ever had my Alba clog even when I didn't warm it up before playing. And I never had problems playing the notes of the second octave. I no longer have it though. Gave it to a girl starting out on low whistle. I can't think of a better instrument to get started on.

Other whistles that never clog for me are/have been: MKs, Kerry Pros, Overtons.

The ones I have had problems with have been Goldie (with a very narrow windway) and Cilian O'Briain.


So you might want to consider getting another whistle. It could help.

Keep at it!
John

[brewerpaul]

The problem is more likely condensed breath moisture than actual saliva. Instead of blowing it out, which introduces even more moisture, try quickly and sharply sucking it in. Don't be squeamish-- that same stuff was in your mouth only moments ago! . You can even do this in the middle of a tune, hardly missing a beat.

[killthemessenger]

On cold days, you could try running the whistle head under hot water for a bit to warm up the windway, then shake/suck/blow it dry. That usually completely does away with the condensation problem (which should not be saliva at all). I'm assuming the whistle has a metal or delrin head here, of course. Alternatively, you can just blow slowly though the whistle for a minute or so before playing it to heat the windway up. Basically, anything that warms the instrument up will work.

[Mr Ed]

I go with the basic idea that it's usually me and not the whistle when things aren't going well. And that's the way it ends up being 99.999% of the time.

Some good suggestions here for how to avoid condensation (if it's spit, it's definitely not the whistle's fault!). I'll add another to the mix to try: hold the whistle head in your hand for a bit to warm it up.

The soapy water treatment helps too, but I rarely do that now that I've got a little more experience on the instrument. It's one of those things that seems to get better with time. Not sure how, but it does.

[killthemessenger]

It's one of those things that seems to get better with time. Not sure how, but it does.

I read somewhere once upon a time that the windway builds up a coating over time that promotes the flow of condensation out of the windway exit. But this may refer more to wooden windways than metal.