Susato 'Inspired'

[ThomasNashJohnson]

http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_irish_whistle_d.htm

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Smart-SI-922-Ir ... B005NG0C9K

http://www.ferrismusic.co.uk/ferris-abs ... istle-in-d

[Feadoggie]

A search ... ... may have revealed some of the discussions we have had on these.

I have bought a couple brands of these Kildare-like objects so far. The brands vary but the whistles are the same (as far as I can tell). They play ok for the price. I prefer Susato whistles over these. YMMV. I'd suggest a Susato Oriole over one of these in a heart beat.

The people that make these also offer recorders, fifes and such. The company has seemingly co-opted Yamaha and Aulos designs for those as far as I can tell. I've got a few Woodnote recorders, as well as the models from which they appear to have been derived. Again, if the price is attractive you will get an instrument that plays but not nearly as well as the Yamaha or Aulos. Tone can be less attractive as well. But it is all up to the player I suppose.

The sad part of this to me is that many retailers price these instruments as high or much higher than Yamaha, Aulos or Susato would.

The Woodnote recorders were once the bargain darlings of the ABS recorder world. They were originally sold for maybe 20% of the price of a Yamaha (talking tenor or bass models particularly). But they quickly came up in price to meet and then pass the price of the Yamahas at many retailers. I bought my Woodnote tenor at a very low price. I'd say it was worth what I paid for it, but no more. It is nice looking. The fit and finish is good too. The tone and the playing are not first rate though. The Yamaha tenor is a much better instrument.

Feadoggie

[ThomasNashJohnson]

I did initially write 'Now wait for Feadoggie to evoke the Search Function' at the end of my post but thought better of it.

[Feadoggie]

Yeah, I figured.

Read through the thread though if you are interested. Beauty is in the eyes/ears of the beholder. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=86161

This one too. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=85854

At the price Thomann asks there's not much to be disappointed about.

Feadoggie

[ThomasNashJohnson]

Someone must be producing these things as blank 'generic' whistles, but a vendor can have their name stamped on them if they meet a minimum order requirement. The Smart/Ferris whistles are already modestly priced but as you say the Thomann is absurdly cheap.

I'm at a loss though why anyone would copy the Susato, I had 'genuine' Susato briefly and it was easily my least favorite whistle (I loathed it in fact)

And thanks Feadoggie, I've had a look through the two links you've sent me.

[hans]

At the price Thomann asks there's not much to be disappointed about.

A cheap disappointment? I found these whistles useless, unless one reduces hole four to get the G note into tune, because I found it far too sharp. Even then I found them very difficult to play, especially the second octave, because they are voiced very loud. I was looking for a cheap whistle for children, but was rather disappointed by these.

Did anyone else notice the tuning issue for the G note?

[ThomasNashJohnson]

The sad part of this to me is that many retailers price these instruments as high or much higher than Yamaha, Aulos or Susato would.

The Woodnote recorders were once the bargain darlings of the ABS recorder world. They were originally sold for maybe 20% of the price of a Yamaha (talking tenor or bass models particularly). But they quickly came up in price to meet and then pass the price of the Yamahas

Very odd, about the only incentive I can see for purchasing a 'counterfeit' instrument is the cost saving (eg: Susato/Thomann) and then it comes down to the old adage 'You get What You Pay For' if the bogus instrument doesn't perform as well as the genuine article.

[ThomasNashJohnson]

I was looking for a cheap whistle for children, but was rather disappointed by these.

I once purchased a handful of the old Clarke 'Meg' whistles (I believe they cost in the region of £3.50 each at the time) for my friends children. Predictably a couple of these were badly damaged as they are not the most robust of instruments. I was thinking the Thomann (similar price to the Meg) and probably a good deal more durable would be an ideal replacement for the Meg's, however if they are as horribly loud as you state Hans perhaps not?

[pancelticpiper]

I take it that these are made in China, or Pakistan.

An instrument repair person I know calls the Chinese trumpets, Boehm flutes, violins, clarinets, saxophones, etc which are flooding the band instrument world Instrument-Shaped-Objects due to the fact that they LOOK like instruments on the outside, but are not indeed musical instruments. They're reverse-designed: actual musical instruments are designed to function, and the outer appearance follows from the function (form follows function) while many of these Chinese instruments are designed from the outside, the priority being that they outwardly resemble musical instruments.

The earliest Chinese band instruments that came over here appeared to be created from photos of instruments; it was clear that the makers didn't have a physical instrument to copy (the internal bores could be any size whatever, and it was not unknown to find parts which weren't bored through at all).

They're getting better now, evidently having physical instruments to copy, though still not rising to the level of legitimate instruments.

Ever seen the Pakistani-made copies of Ralph Sweet flutes? Of modern blackwood "Irish flutes"? They're terrible.

[Sirchronique]

The earliest Chinese band instruments that came over here appeared to be created from photos of instruments; it was clear that the makers didn't have a physical instrument to copy (the internal bores could be any size whatever, and it was not unknown to find parts which weren't bored through at all).

I'd say you are right that they didn't care much about functionality , and made poor instruments. I doubt they reconstructed it based on a photo, though. Considering the cost of tooling needed to make even a poor forgery (in mass quantities), they could have bought a cheap student flute to copy (at least for something that resembles the instrument on the outside).

[hans]

I was looking for a cheap whistle for children, but was rather disappointed by these.

I once purchased a handful of the old Clarke 'Meg' whistles (I believe they cost in the region of £3.50 each at the time) for my friends children. Predictably a couple of these were badly damaged as they are not the most robust of instruments. I was thinking the Thomann (similar price to the Meg) and probably a good deal more durable would be an ideal replacement for the Meg's, however if they are as horribly loud as you state Hans perhaps not?

No, even if the G note would not be so badly high I would not recommend these for children, because they need too much air. I would try Waltons Mellow D whistles instead. They have a wider bore than most standard D's (as wide as the standard C's) and sound more mellow because of that. I think a teacher could live with that sound much better. Of course the brass bodies could get squashed, but they are still stronger than some plastic bodies, which can crack, or get deliberately cracked.

[Peter Duggan]

I'm at a loss though why anyone would copy the Susato, I had 'genuine' Susato briefly and it was easily my least favorite whistle (I loathed it in fact)

Whereas I'd say my one-piece (Dublin?) Susato high D has been one of my long-standing favourites...

[pancelticpiper]

I've never liked Susato high D whistles. The bore was just too big making the high notes scream out and tricky to hit.

I had one of the early ones, machined from PVC stock (brown and/or white) with a wooden block. It was the loudest D I've ever encountered. The voicing was actually pretty good, though it had a huge bore and an extremely loud and somewhat difficult 2nd octave. I gave it to a good player who wanted a really loud whistle for street busking.

I have a later one, injection moulded from swirly grey/black plastic, in two pieces. It's pretty horrid and I've only used it once, for a street gig where volume was the priority.

Of course when one spends a load of time on one of these whistles one gets better at controlling the high notes. Still not my cup of tea.

[trill]

I love my Susatos.

They've been with me on many trips (Grand Canyon, Death Valley, numerous cave +hikes). They're durable as h*ll, not too expensive, and just fine for pitch.

Yup, they're loud. But for a Morris Side, they're perfect for being heard in an open field.

trill

ps. to keep peace with your neighbors, do a search on "mutes" . . .

[ThomasNashJohnson]

I love my Susatos.

They've been with me on many trips (Grand Canyon, Death Valley, numerous cave +hikes). They're durable as h*ll, not too expensive, and just fine for pitch.

Yup, they're loud. But for a Morris Side, they're perfect for being heard in an open field.

trill

ps. to keep peace with your neighbors, do a search on "mutes" . . .

I didn't care for the enormous mouthpiece (does it have to be quite so large?) made my upper lip sore in fact. I agree the separate components are durable, but I did worry about the tuning slide that seemed a bit flimsy, and the tone had (to my ear anyway) a somewhat bland, recorder like quality. Also in the UK they are quite expensive, I paid almost £40.00 (approximately $64 USD) almost double the price of say the Tony Dixon tuneable polymer High D.

Not for me I'm afraid, but I'm glad you enjoy yours.